Are women disadvantaged in striking arts/styles?

[RTKDCMB]

If the fact we were not a stick meant that we were beyond the laws of physics then you might be right...but we are not beyond the laws of physics. That my friend is basic physics and it applies no matter how much you may, or may not, like it...sorry that is scientific fact F = ma... and it is no more complicated than that.

It's a little more complicated than that. There are other factors involved:

1) The impulse (the change in acceleration over time), which is the difference between a push and a strike.
2) The type of collision (elastic or inelastic collision), which is the difference between punching a soccer ball held in your hand and punching a brick wall.
3) The applied pressure (the smaller the surface area, the greater the applied pressure for the same amount of force), which is the difference between a slap and a back fist. A knife will stick into someone because of the extreme amount of pressure applied by the tip.
4) The contact angle, which is the difference between a glancing blow and a full on hit.
5) And of course weakness of the target.

All of these factors are interrelated, for example the rigidity of the striking tool and the target determines the type collision (most collisions are a combination of elastic and inelastic collisions) and the amount of impulse imparted to the target.

It is not so much how much force you can generate but how that force is applied to the target and the selection of target that matters.

 

[Hanzou]

A small point, in the OP it says that it's TKD then later on Hanzou says it's Tang Soo Do. Two different styles.

I assumed it was TKD, that was my mistake. In the comment section, the poster stated that they practice TSD.

And the only 'good news' is that BJJ is a bit better for women...........................

 

[Tez3]

so, women when attacked should always take it to the ground? Well they are obviously crap at stand up and BJJ is the only style they can do so.......

 

[Hanzou]

so, women when attacked should always take it to the ground? ..

Women should assess the situation and respond accordingly.

 

[Cirdan]

Honi the Horrible recomends Viking Berzerker Arts since it works for everybody in all circumstances everywhere.

 

[ballen0351]

Except men tend to be larger and stronger than women on average.

Great but that has nothing to do with the clip. He wasn't using his "superior" strength. He wasn't hitting very hard at all. He was using his skill and superior training which isn't gender specific. If he just walked up shoved then against a wall pinned them and started bashing them in the face I'd agree he out muscled them but he didnt.

Except they are out muscled. The guy is taller than they are, and hitting them with a lot more power. His blows are doing more damage than their blows. Additionally, his height advantage gives him a better vantage point for targeting his opponent's weak point, causing even more damage.

Oh stop he wasn't doing any damage he wasn't hitting them any harder then they were hitting him. He was just taking better shots. At most he used his height and reach advantage but even that's stretching it. Fave it you picked a poor clip to post as your proof guys and stinger then woman. All you have proven is for those 45 second fights that guy out skilled the females. But he was fresh, not under the stress of testing, and was clearly higher trained then them. If that was his best however I wasn't that impressed. Drop your hands like that against a few female fighters I know he would be picking his teeth off the floor.

His technical superiority probably arose because of those advantages, while those women's technical ability stayed the same because of their disadvantages. You can see it via their reactions to his striking. I repeat, there shouldn't be that large a gap in technical ability between two black belts at the same school. Granted, you're going to have a black belt who is better than another black belt, but the disparity in ability shown here is far larger than that.

Again you have no idea what your talking about. You have no idea about the "quality" of black belts in that school. You have no idea if that guy even goes to that school. When we do black belt testing it's normally at national seminars with students from all over. Some school are much better then others. Some people train for different reasons some people take training more serious then others. Some people cross train and have more experience in general. None of that has to do with gender. We for example only put cheap white medical tape around a black belt to show that student has a black belt in another style and he hasn't meet the requirements in our style yet. We also don't wear stripes period so an 8th deg belt looks just like a brand new just promoted black belt. That is the problem with out of context YouTube clips you don't know the real story.

But hey, I'm sure their katas are fantastic.

Yeah and I'd let you know how I feel about that smug comment but sadly it's against the rules here

 

[ballen0351]

so, women when attacked should always take it to the ground? Well they are obviously crap at stand up and BJJ is the only style they can do so.......

Yes and the quicker you learn that we can all go home. Now go make me a sandwich

 

[RTKDCMB]

Women should assess the situation and respond accordingly.

Shouldn't everyone?

 

[Hanzou]

Great but that has nothing to do with the clip. He wasn't using his "superior" strength. He wasn't hitting very hard at all. He was using his skill and superior training which isn't gender specific. If he just walked up shoved then against a wall pinned them and started bashing them in the face I'd agree he out muscled them but he didnt.

I recommend you watch the clip again. He was using his superior strength to the point that it caused the females to recoil backwards several times throughout the fight. There was one point (when he had both his hands down of course), that he straight punched the girl in the face. Was it a hard blow? I can't tell, but her face was red after the impact.

You're also assuming that he had superior training. Under the circumstances, its very likely he had the same training as the women, and that training benefited him more than it did the women.

Oh stop he wasn't doing any damage he wasn't hitting them any harder then they were hitting him. He was just taking better shots.

He wasn't hitting them any hard than they were hitting him, yet he didn't recoil from impact a single time, while those women recoiled from impact constantly?

:hmm:

Fave it you picked a poor clip to post as your proof guys and stinger then woman. All you have proven is for those 45 second fights that guy out skilled the females. But he was fresh, not under the stress of testing, and was clearly higher trained then them. If that was his best however I wasn't that impressed. Drop your hands like that against a few female fighters I know he would be picking his teeth off the floor.

I wasn't impressed either. However, if the guy isn't an impressive black belt, what does that say about the fresh women black belts he just manhandled?

Again you have no idea what your talking about. You have no idea about the "quality" of black belts in that school.

I'm observing the quality of their black belts through that video.

You have no idea if that guy even goes to that school.

Your assumptions are getting more and more loony. Why would you bring in an outside black belt in to embarrass your female red belts who are testing for black? Wouldn't that make them and your school look worse? :lol:

 

[Hanzou]

Shouldn't everyone?

Certainly. However we were talking about women.

Also, women tend to be taken to the ground when attacked. Thus learning to fight from the ground is a valuable skill for a woman to have.

 

[ballen0351]

Certainly. However we were talking about women.

Also, women tend to be taken to the ground when attacked. Thus learning to fight from the ground is a valuable skill for a woman to have.

Says who? Where are your facts to back this up. Most attacks or assaults on woman happen in the home by a spouse or boyfriend. Most attacks involve a smack, punch, grab and shove into a wal, or shake. Most of these woman won't fight back due to tremendous emotional beatings they have been taking long before the physical attack ever started.

 

[ballen0351]

I recommend you watch the clip again. He was using his superior strength to the point that it caused the females to recoil backwards several times throughout the fight. There was one point (when he had both his hands down of course), that he straight punched the girl in the face. Was it a hard blow? I can't tell, but her face was red after the impact.

You're also assuming that he had superior training. Under the circumstances, its very likely he had the same training as the women, and that training benefited him more than it did the women.

I'm not assuming anything. I have no idea as to the context of anything. Your the one making assumptions I'm just not buying your BS

He wasn't hitting them any hard than they were hitting him, yet he didn't recoil from impact a single time, while those women recoiled from impact constantly?

:hmm:

They were not recoiling they were flinching. Thats what most people do that are not use to being hit in the face. I can walk up and flick someone in the nose and they will "recoil" back. The few good shots he got in he wasn't hitting hard. If you think he's got any kind of power behind those punches you need to spend less time on your back

I wasn't impressed either. However, if the guy isn't an impressive black belt, what does that say about the fresh women black belts he just manhandled?

Doesn't say anything to me about them. I don't know them or the situation. I don't know if they had to do 300 pushup before the test and if this was their 10th fight of the day. I don't known enough about them to say anything other the in this clip the guy was more skilled.

I'm observing the quality of their black belts through that video.

No your not your observing a short clip with no context you can't Judge the quality. Hell you cold even figure out what style it was at first.

Your assumptions are getting more and more loony. Why would you bring in an outside black belt in to embarrass your female red belts who are testing for black? Wouldn't that make them and your school look worse? :lol:

Like I said we do black belt test in front of the head of the organization usually in a national seminar. The Dojo head can't promote to black belt in our organization. So you have people from all over the world attend these seminars from schools all over the world. When I tested I flew to Canada to take my test because that was the closest seminar. I spared a guy from Alaska and 2 from japan. So i have no idea from your little clip who this guy is where he came from or his experience lvl.

Again you choose a poor clip to showcase the strength differences between the sexes

 

[Hanzou]

Says who? Where are your facts to back this up.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/15/h...-in-us-survey-report-sexual-assault.html?_r=0

Most attacks or assaults on woman happen in the home by a spouse or boyfriend. Most attacks involve a smack, punch, grab and shove into a wal, or shake. Most of these woman won't fight back due to tremendous emotional beatings they have been taking long before the physical attack ever started.

Which in turn can lead to a situation where their significant other is on top of them, dealing more harm.

 

[ballen0351]

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/15/h...-in-us-survey-report-sexual-assault.html?_r=0

You do understand sexual assaulted doesn't mean taken to the ground and raped right? You also missed the part where most are done by someone your in a relationship with. Also regular old assaults FAR outnumber sexual assaults and rapes. This far out BJJ rape defense fantasy gets tiresome. Most of these woman are raped or assaulted by someone they are in a relationship with and AGAIN that has nothing to do with your topic. These woman are not assaulted because the man is physically stronger. It's far more mental then that. It's not about physical power it's emotional control. Unlike you I've actually investigated rapes and sex assaults and domestic violence. I've talked to the victims and the suspects it has nothing to do with brute strength. This fantasy land that there is a dude waiting in the bushes for the lone woman to walk by to snatch her up and drag her off to rape her and only BJJ can save her isn't reality. I've personally investigated 17 rapes (I only know this because I just looked it up last week for an upcoming job interview) Of the 17 only 3 were stranger rapes where the victim didn't know the attacker. 2 the male had a weapon broke into the home at night and threatened to kill the woman's children if she fought or screamed. 1 was this stranger in the bushes well an alley actually that grabbed a woman off the street. She wasn't raped however because she did fight back. She had zero training and basically dug her nails into his face and his groin when he exposes it. He punched her and ran. The rest were all spouses/boyfriends or an ex. All had many prior history of physical domestic violence and none of the woman were at an emotional place where fighting back even crossed their minds.

Which in turn can lead to a situation where their significant other is on top of them, dealing more harm.

Again you have crossed into an area where you have zero idea what your talking about. I suggest you go back to g u s have bigger biceps then girls because this has nothing to do with strength or size

 

[ballen0351]

That study also has some flaws in the way they included data and question selection

 

[Hanzou]

You do understand sexual assaulted doesn't mean taken to the ground and raped right?

If you want to discuss this further, feel free to go here;

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/90-general-self-defense/115945-ground-fighting.html

So that we can keep this thread on track.

 

[Xue Sheng]

It's a little more complicated than that. There are other factors involved:

1) The impulse (the change in acceleration over time), which is the difference between a push and a strike.
2) The type of collision (elastic or inelastic collision), which is the difference between punching a soccer ball held in your hand and punching a brick wall.
3) The applied pressure (the smaller the surface area, the greater the applied pressure for the same amount of force), which is the difference between a slap and a back fist. A knife will stick into someone because of the extreme amount of pressure applied by the tip.
4) The contact angle, which is the difference between a glancing blow and a full on hit.
5) And of course weakness of the target.

All of these factors are interrelated, for example the rigidity of the striking tool and the target determines the type collision (most collisions are a combination of elastic and inelastic collisions) and the amount of impulse imparted to the target.

It is not so much how much force you can generate but how that force is applied to the target and the selection of target that matters.

Did you read all my posts on this or just this one? I don't give a hoot about any of this bottom-line there is no more to it than physics. sorry you don't agree...we, as humans...are governed by the laws of physics... With the formula F = ma I am "ONLY" talking about Force....not power. not speed, not velocity, not weak or strong or any other interrelated factors you can come up with. Now you want all the rest of this read the rest of my posts on the topic you will see that...maybe.


And now a note to all others that come at me on this, with the exception of a few on the site that are by far better educated in physics than I....

It is all physics folks and you can come up with all the variables you want to say it isn't but NEWS FLASH!!! that is all it is "Physics". without F=ma you cannot get to "Power"..... any more would be a pointless repetition of what I have already said and I have had enough of this sillienss.

What I do find interesting is that nobody, absolutely nobody, commented on post #39..... and I can only guess that is because it flies in the face of all those trying to prove that men are by far superior fighters to woman..... lord knows a woman a little more than 100lbs having the capability to drop a guy around 250 must be a myth right Would you all have liked it better if I used my late 70s Taiji shifu who I have a hundred pounds on as an example, he is the best I have ever seen, of felt and qinna, redirection and pressure point strikes... I mean he is a guy after all so it is less of a threat to our collective manhood

OK...I'm off the soapbox and out of this silliness.

 

[Hanzou]

What I do find interesting is that nobody, absolutely nobody, commented on post #39..... and I can only guess that is because it flies in the face of all those trying to prove that men are by far superior fighters to woman..... lord knows a woman a little more than 100lbs having the capability to drop a guy around 250 must be a myth right Would you all have liked it better if I used my late 70s Taiji shifu who I have a hundred pounds on as an example, he is the best I have ever seen, of felt and qinna, redirection and pressure point strikes... I mean he is a guy after all so it is less of a threat to our collective manhood

OK...I'm off the soapbox and out of this silliness.

I think most people didn't respond to it because its anecdotal. I'm sure your wife is a strong lady, mine is as well. However, how would she handle herself if a larger male assailant really desired to do her harm?

I think we need to remove the notion that size and strength doesn't matter in physical conflict or the martial arts. It most certainly does.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I think most people didn't respond to it because its anecdotal. I'm sure your wife is a strong lady, mine is as well. However, how would she handle herself if a larger male assailant really desired to do her harm?

I think we need to remove the notion that size and strength doesn't matter in physical conflict or the martial arts. It most certainly does.

I know how she would respond, much the same way, it is how she is wired.... and it ain't strength bubba...its skill... now take a look at post #39 and show me anywhere in there I said anything about "Strength" being the reason

You want to say it is "not necessarily true or reliable, because based on personal accounts rather than facts or research.".... I'm ok with that..... I want to believe no one responded because it was a threat to their testosterone.... I'm ok with that too..... you have a nice day

 

[Hanzou]

I know how she would respond, much the same way, it is how she is wired.... and it ain't strength bubba...its skill... now take a look at post #39 and show me anywhere in there I said anything about "Strength" being the reason

I never said you did. I said that there's a notion in martial arts that skill can always overcome strength or that strength "doesn't matter". The first part is not necessarily true, and the second part isn't true at all. Your skill needs to be at a certain point to overcome the strength advantage of an opponent. Believe it or not, that's a disadvantage, because if they're skilled in turn, you're in a lot of trouble.