Are women disadvantaged in striking arts/styles?

[Xue Sheng]

I never said you did. I said that there's a notion in martial arts that skill can always overcome strength or that strength "doesn't matter". The first part is not necessarily true, and the second part isn't true at all. Your skill needs to be at a certain point to overcome the strength advantage of an opponent. Believe it or not, that's a disadvantage, because if they're skilled in turn, you're in a lot of trouble.

But you used "strength" in your response which implies that I did talk about strength in post #39.... now...without further adieu.... I am tired of this silliness.... you guys want to be strong macho martial arts he men...more power to you....

From the book - Zen in the Martial Arts by Joe Hyams
Chapter Title “Do Not Disturb”

This is from a conversation between Joe Hyams, Sterling Silliphant and Bruce Lee

On one such occasion we talked about the difference between wasting time and spending time. Bruce was the first to speak.

“To spend time is to pass it in a specific manner” he said. “We are spending it during lessons just as we are spending it now in conversation. To waste time is to expend it thoughtlessly or carelessly. We all have time to either spend or waste and it is our decision what to do with it. But once passed, it is gone forever.

“It is the most precious commodity we have, “agreed Sterling. “I always view my time as divided into infinite moments or transactions or contacts. Anyone who steals my time is stealing my life because they are taking my existence from me. As I get older, I realize that time is the only thing I have left. So when someone comes to me with a project, I estimate the time it will take me to do it and then ask myself, ‘Do I want to spend weeks or months of what little time I have on this project? Is it worth it or is it wasting my time?’ If I consider the project time-worthy I do it.

“I apply this same yardstick to my social relations. I will not permit people to steal my time. I have limited my friends to those people with whom time passes happily. There are moments in my life - necessary moments - when I don’t do anything but what is my choice. The choice of how I spend my time is mine, and it is not dictated by social convention”

After Sterling finished talking, Bruce looked into space for a few moments. When he finally spoke, it was to ask if he could make a telephone call.

When he came back, Bruce was smiling. “I just cancelled an appointment.” he said. “It was with someone who wanted to waste my time and not help me spend it”

You, and pretty much this thread at this point, is wasting mine so......:wavey:

 

[ballen0351]

If you want to discuss this further, feel free to go here;

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/90-general-self-defense/115945-ground-fighting.html

So that we can keep this thread on track.

I dont actually because you have shown you have no idea what your talking about. Good Day sir:2xbird:

 

[Cirdan]

All I can say is that the female martial artists I know don`t give a flying crap about so called inherent disadvantages or that they statistically are supposed to be weak. When you show up at the dojo day after day year after year you are no longer Ms.Average Marge Simpson.

 

[donald1]

All I can say is that the female martial artists I know don`t give a flying crap about so called inherent disadvantages or that they statistically are supposed to be weak. When you show up at the dojo day after day year after year you are no longer Ms.Average Marge Simpson.

 

[RTKDCMB]

Did you read all my posts on this or just this one? I don't give a hoot about any of this bottom-line there is no more to it than physics. sorry you don't agree...we, as humans...are governed by the laws of physics... With the formula F = ma I am "ONLY" talking about Force....not power. not speed, not velocity, not weak or strong or any other interrelated factors you can come up with. Now you want all the rest of this read the rest of my posts on the topic you will see that...maybe.


And now a note to all others that come at me on this, with the exception of a few on the site that are by far better educated in physics than I....

It is all physics folks and you can come up with all the variables you want to say it isn't but NEWS FLASH!!! that is all it is "Physics". without F=ma you cannot get to "Power"..... any more would be a pointless repetition of what I have already said and I have had enough of this sillienss.

What I do find interesting is that nobody, absolutely nobody, commented on post #39..... and I can only guess that is because it flies in the face of all those trying to prove that men are by far superior fighters to woman..... lord knows a woman a little more than 100lbs having the capability to drop a guy around 250 must be a myth right Would you all have liked it better if I used my late 70s Taiji shifu who I have a hundred pounds on as an example, he is the best I have ever seen, of felt and qinna, redirection and pressure point strikes... I mean he is a guy after all so it is less of a threat to our collective manhood

OK...I'm off the soapbox and out of this silliness.

Ok, a couple of things:

1) Where in any of my posts did I even suggest that men are superior fighters or even mention women at all?
2) There is a lady in my organization (one of our 6th Dans) I have absolutely no doubt she could kick my butt.
3) There are about a hundred or so posts I didn't comment on.
4) Post #39 was some vagueish comment on the fact that a medical practitioner knows human anatomy didn't need much of a response since, as martial artists, we all know there are vulnerable spots on the human body that are more effective to strike at and yes the effectiveness of a strike depends on the technique being used is not exactly a revelation.
5) My manhood is not under any kind of threat (unless I get kicked there) because my ego does not run my life.
6) If you are going to mention physics and over simplify things then someone with a physics degree is going to call you on it eventually.
7) Physics is what a smaller person uses to overcome a larger, stronger opponent.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Ok, a couple of things:

1) Where in any of my posts did I even suggest that men are superior fighters or even mention women at all?
2) There is a lady in my organization (one of our 6th Dans) I have absolutely no doubt she could kick my butt.
3) There are about a hundred or so posts I didn't comment on.
4) Post #39 was some vagueish comment on the fact that a medical practitioner knows human anatomy didn't need much of a response since, as martial artists, we all know there are vulnerable spots on the human body that are more effective to strike at and yes the effectiveness of a strike depends on the technique being used is not exactly a revelation.
5) My manhood is not under any kind of threat (unless I get kicked there) because my ego does not run my life.
6) If you are going to mention physics and over simplify things then someone with a physics degree is going to call you on it eventually.
7) Physics is what a smaller person uses to overcome a larger, stronger opponent.

I over simplified...interesting..... I was using basics to make it easier...do you have a physics degree?

Now

This part was in response to your post to me

Did you read all my posts on this or just this one? I don't give a hoot about any of this bottom-line there is no more to it than physics. sorry you don't agree...we, as humans...are governed by the laws of physics... With the formula F = ma I am "ONLY" talking about Force....not power. not speed, not velocity, not weak or strong or any other interrelated factors you can come up with. Now you want all the rest of this read the rest of my posts on the topic you will see that...maybe.

Did you read the posts after that that were also on the topic of physics?

Now...

This part was general to all it applied that is why it started with "And now a note to all others that come at me on this, with the exception of a few on the site that are by far better educated in physics than I...."

It is all physics folks and you can come up with all the variables you want to say it isn't but NEWS FLASH!!! that is all it is "Physics". without F=ma you cannot get to "Power"..... any more would be a pointless repetition of what I have already said and I have had enough of this sillienss.

What I do find interesting is that nobody, absolutely nobody, commented on post #39..... and I can only guess that is because it flies in the face of all those trying to prove that men are by far superior fighters to woman..... lord knows a woman a little more than 100lbs having the capability to drop a guy around 250 must be a myth right Would you all have liked it better if I used my late 70s Taiji shifu who I have a hundred pounds on as an example, he is the best I have ever seen, of felt and qinna, redirection and pressure point strikes... I mean he is a guy after all so it is less of a threat to our collective manhood

OK...I'm off the soapbox and out of this silliness.

you want to include yourself in that...I'm ok with that...but I did not name names and from this point on...to all in this thread...quote me, argue with me all you want but please... before you do...refer to post #121....

 

[drop bear]

How big are we talking? The problem is that the guy looked like what you expect a black belt to look like. The women did not.

The difference can be pretty big.

A good striker can mess with your mojo a bit because if you make a mistake you get smashed for it. So a good striker can wind up making you look like a bad one. You wind up second guessing yourself and throwing worse.

Something we haven't mentioned is you get more gains where you are training with people who are better. So the girls are getting more out of that training than that guy.

 

[Hanzou]

Something we haven't mentioned is you get more gains where you are training with people who are better. So the girls are getting more out of that training than that guy.

You really think either one of those girls are going to improve significantly? You're supposed to be somewhat proficient in your art before you reach black belt. Assuming they passed this black belt test, they're one grade away from instructor level.

 

[Hanzou]

But you used "strength" in your response which implies that I did talk about strength in post #39.... now...without further adieu.... I am tired of this silliness.... you guys want to be strong macho martial arts he men...more power to you....

I'm curious where you get the notion that anyone here is trying to be "macho". I agree that this discussion isn't politically correct, but no one here is saying that women have no place in the martial arts. I'm simply pointing out I've pattern I and others have noticed in the martial arts. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Tez3]

You really think either one of those girls are going to improve significantly? You're supposed to be somewhat proficient in your art before you reach black belt. Assuming they passed this black belt test, they're one grade away from instructor level.

However proficient they are or are not they only represent their club and instructors, they don't constitute the whole of TSD nor do they represent female martial artists. All that the videos proves is how they spar on that particular day with that particular opponent.. Perhaps they are a McDojo perhaps not, we don't know. You cannot take anything meaningful from viewing that video as far as women in martial arts are concerned, nothing at all.

 

[drop bear]

You really think either one of those girls are going to improve significantly? You're supposed to be somewhat proficient in your art before you reach black belt. Assuming they passed this black belt test, they're one grade away from instructor level.

That is moving in to a different argument though. How good a fighter has to be to grade. And that is up to the club.

Let's look at your vid of the bjj the guy who got subbed. He obviously did not earn his belt because he just got manhandled buy a guy half his size?

Is that a fair statement?

 

[Hanzou]

That is moving in to a different argument though. How good a fighter has to be to grade. And that is up to the club.

Let's look at your vid of the bjj the guy who got subbed. He obviously did not earn his belt because he just got manhandled buy a guy half his size?

Is that a fair statement?

No because the two in the Bjj vid were from different schools. Different schools have different standards.

Would it be fair to say that the fighting ability of the females in question was considered acceptable because they're women? Would a man with that sheer lack of fighting ability be promoted to black belt?

 

[ballen0351]

No because the two in the Bjj vid were from different schools. Different schools have different standards.

Would it be fair to say that the fighting ability of the females in question was considered acceptable because they're women? Would a man with that sheer lack of fighting ability be promoted to black belt?

How long have those ladies been training? How long has he been training?

 

[Hanzou]

However proficient they are or are not they only represent their club and instructors, they don't constitute the whole of TSD nor do they represent female martial artists. All that the videos proves is how they spar on that particular day with that particular opponent.. Perhaps they are a McDojo perhaps not, we don't know. You cannot take anything meaningful from viewing that video as far as women in martial arts are concerned, nothing at all.

You can take the fact that the man was far more skilled than the women in that video, despite them testing for the same rank he was.

That's very meaningful.

 

[ballen0351]

You can take the fact that the man was far more skilled than the women in that video, despite them testing for the same rank he was.

That's very meaningful.

How do you know what rank he is?

 

[Hanzou]

How do you know what rank he is?

By looking at his belt. :uhoh:

 

[ballen0351]

I suggest you stop bashing these ladies that went out there and did their thing. Then Had the guts to post it online. They did a fine job and don't need to be used as your punchline and treated like a joke. You have no idea what was going on and have turned a 3 min clip taken from unknown context and have used it to bash these girls skills and abilities. Post up some videos of your amazing skills or back off these ladies

 

[Steve]

You really think either one of those girls are going to improve significantly? You're supposed to be somewhat proficient in your art before you reach black belt. Assuming they passed this black belt test, they're one grade away from instructor level.

The standard for black belt in one art is different in another. Makes no sense to apply a Bjj standard for black belt to any other style. Apples to oranges.


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[jks9199]

No.

An average black belt won't be at that level ever.

I think a competitive MMA fighter -- especially apro in international fighting -- is at least arguably comparable to a black belt in their chosen "style". So, rather by definition, an " average black belt " is not going tho be at their level of strength and conditioning. Unless their in Lake Woebegone...

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[Hanzou]

The standard for black belt in one art is different in another. Makes no sense to apply a Bjj standard for black belt to any other style. Apples to oranges.


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Well I have a black belt in Shotokan, which is quite similar to TSD. In TSD, second degree black is instructor level, just like it is in Shotokan. These women were one step away from that ranking.