Why do people think grappling arts always beat striking arts?

[Hanzou]

Grapplers have advantage over strikers because the striker's

- arm can be wrapped.
- leg can be caught.

When that happen, the striking game end and the grappling game start.

It's easier for a wrestler to learn anti-striking. It's harder for a striker to learn anti-grappling.

That doesn’t counter anything I said in my response.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

That doesn’t counter anything I said in my response.

It's not counter. It's agreement.

The moment that you can separate your opponent's arms away from his head, the moment that the striking game is over and the grappling game start.

 

[Hanzou]

It's not counter. It's agreement.

The moment that you can separate your opponent's arms away from his head, the moment that the striking game is over and the grappling game start.

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I agree, but you’re being way too specific. Once the distance is closed and you’re in grappling range, if you have limited to no grappling ability against a highly trained grappler, you’re done.

What makes this so definitive is that SO many physical altercations end up in the grapple/clinch. Very rarely does one knock someone out with a single hit, or can stay out of range and just rain down shots. The overwhelming majority of times the two parties clash together and they’re literally grappling for control.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Very rarely does one knock someone out with a single hit,

Agree!

When you hit a match box, that match box will fly away. When you put that match box on the ground, even a kid can step on and smashes it.

IMO, to punch your opponent when he is on the ground is much more effective then to punch him when he moves around.

 

[jergar]

By not playing the grappler's game I thing Jerger is talking about the striker being highly mobile and maintaining range so it's harder to shoot in on him. I don't think he means standing upright and just boxing even at a grappling range. So I don't think you guys are really saying opposite things here.

And, you are absolutely right about the "stand tall with your hands up throwing punches" thing not being wise. Back in the 80s and early 90s Our Wing Tsun group took that dubious approach against shoots and whenever anyone competent shot in on them it when very badly ....for the WT guys. Went beautifully for the wrestlers though.

Their first response was to the problem was to double down on their flawed teaching, and then when that wasn't enough, then to pretty well forbid training with other styles who might really present a challenge. Their techniques worked well enough against a clumsy, uncommitted tackle half-heartedly delivered from too far away ....by one of your own classmates!

My own response was a simple sprawl. My old wrestling skills were degraded and pretty minimal by that point ...but still sure worked better than standing up and trying to elbow the other guy in the back!!! ...See below (32:12-32:22)

Gotta love the sound effects though!

Thanks that is exactly what I meant, standing still with your hands up is what the grappler wants .

 

[geezer]

It's not counter. It's agreement.

The moment that you can separate your opponent's arms away from his head, the moment that the striking game is over and the grappling game start.

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Hey John, one thing about your "Rhino Guard" I never understood ...or even liked is the interlaced fingers part of it.

I hate interlocking my fingers like that. I find it an awkward position, hard to hit with, and easy to hurt your fingers, and it makes it slower to separate your hands.

On the other hand, if you just grasp your palms together naturally ...like when you clap your hands, I find it works a whole lot better for me.

So, being a Wing Chun guy, I could conceivably assume a modified man-sau wu-sau guard and then when needed, quickly clap my hands to momentarily take on this "rhino" structure, and then close into the huen-bo or circle-leg throw exactly as your student demonstrates here.

Normally in WC we want our hands to stay separate and move independently, but I have encountered a few other situations where the structural strength and stability provided by grasping your hands was very useful. Once, for example, when sparring with a guy who probably had the most incredibly strong grip I've ever experienced.

He latched onto my wrists and, other than perhaps a kick to the "jewels" none of my usual techniques to release would work. But by grasping my hands together, I had the structural stability to easily bend my arms and roll my elbow up and over his, both breaking his grip and delivering an elbow strike and fak-sau to his face. Worked about every time and it's a regular part of my curriculum now.

BTW my total thanks to Eddie (the strong guy) for helping me with this by providing some really stubborn resistance to work against!

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I hate interlocking my fingers like that.

In MA, there is no absolute right and wrong but trade off. This is why the beginner level rhino guard will evolve into intermediate level Chinese zombie arms that locking fists is not needed.

More structure + less mobility -> less structure + more mobility

The original rhino guard idea came from the handcuff situation that your arms movement is limited.