Wing Chun Boxing

[jobo]

Well, you are right there are guys who spent a whole life learning fake things. Of course there are. So what? This doesn't prove that Wing Chun doesn't work. Also this guy in the video, is quite well known for his fighting ability (i think he didn't need to advertise this in the video - though his speed and technique is visible). But no matter what this guy is, i mentioned Wong Shun Leung: He is historically accepted as the "king of talking hands". He had many rooftop fights with different systems and he was never defeated. Then how is it possible that Wing Chun doesn;t work? If it doesn;t work, why he was never defeated?? (And it is not a myth - it is a quite recent history - well known in the world of martial arts).

maybe i beat around the bush to much? have you video of this guy or one of his disciples using wc properly against a reasonable level of pro fighter or even a good levthe amateur , you know someone who shows up if you google them

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Most Wing Chun guys train and train in chain punches that is JUST a tool ONLY FOR TRAINING purposes and will never work in reality.

Here is an example to show that "chain punches" can work.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Yes exactly. It is not proper Wing Chun. In the video the guy is executing the correct extended chain punches and he is so fast that it is impossible for the opponent to retract. And when he does the "training chain punches" he cannot reach his opponent - no way.This is the difference between correct and wrong application of the same tool.
Moreover, as he says in the end of the video, Wing Chun doesn't have only straight punches it - may be in the next video.
And as you correctly say, yes it is not proper Wing Chun. They sit like this because they don;t know Wing Chun)) In the video it is also shown how a wing chuner with the usual chain punches is punished by an opponent who moves sideways.

I'm a bit confused that you keep referring to the guy in the video in the third person, rather than as yourself. Given that your name here and the name of the youtube profile you keep linking too are very similar, I assumed you were the same person. Is that not the case?

 

[nikthegreek_3]

maybe i beat around the bush to much? have you video of this guy or one of his disciples using wc properly against a reasonable level of pro fighter or even a good levthe amateur , you know someone who shows up if you google them

Ι think that you just want to insist on this opinion that you have. So ok... About this guy , i know because myself i have benn there, i know him very well (also in school there were x- boxers). About others, yes there are existing wing chun fighters that they are good and it doesn't matter about their videos of them as an evidence, because i mentioned WSL. Wong Shun Leung is accepted by everyone that he was a top fighter and he knew Wing Chun. You don't need a video - he was a top fighter in Hong Kong against other systems and it is not to be questioned in the world of martial arts. But still you insist on that Wing Chun doesn't work. If Wing Chun is a fake system, how he was the top fighter?
Additionally the subject was if one must combine the 2 systems. And i say that no one should not combine them. They have different mentality.

 

[nikthegreek_3]

I'm a bit confused that you keep referring to the guy in the video in the third person, rather than as yourself. Given that your name here and the name of the youtube profile you keep linking too are very similar, I assumed you were the same person. Is that not the case?

Why not? Knowing him so well - also been in the school for a long time. I don't think it is bad
By the way, in Greece it is the most common name)

 

[nikthegreek_3]

Ι think that you just want to insist on this opinion that you have. So ok... About this guy , i know because i know him myself)) and it is well known in my country. About others, yes there are existing wing chun fighters that they are good and it doesn't matter about their videos of them as an evidence, because i mentioned WSL. Wong Shun Leung is accepted by everyone that he was a top fighter and he knew Wing Chun. You don't need a video - he was a top fighter in Hong Kong against other systems and it is not to be questioned in the world of martial arts. But still you insist on that Wing Chun doesn't work. If Wing Chun is a fake system, how he was the top fighter?

 

[nikthegreek_3]

Here is an example to show that "chain punches" can work.

This video is a great answer: Exactly! These are extended punches in chain mode. And not the short range chain punches that are only for training! great evidence that one should always extend the shoulders. Exactly what i was saying earlier

 

[jobo]

Ι think that you just want to insist on this opinion that you have. So ok... About this guy , i know because myself i have benn there, i know him very well (also in school there were x- boxers). About others, yes there are existing wing chun fighters that they are good and it doesn't matter about their videos of them as an evidence, because i mentioned WSL. Wong Shun Leung is accepted by everyone that he was a top fighter and he knew Wing Chun. You don't need a video - he was a top fighter in Hong Kong against other systems and it is not to be questioned in the world of martial arts. But still you insist on that Wing Chun doesn't work. If Wing Chun is a fake system, how he was the top fighter?
Additionally the subject was if one must combine the 2 systems. And i say that no one should not combine them. They have different mentality.

because he is useing video of " fake" wing chun fighters to show it doesnt work, so you or he has to provided video that his version does work, its only fair and proper, other wise he could just claim anything

i know nothing about wong shun, have you video?

 

[Cynik75]

.... Wong Shun Leung is accepted by everyone that he was a top fighter and he knew Wing Chun.

For example I do not accept this , so your statement "accepted by everyone" is wrong. Sorry.

You don't need a video - he was a top fighter in Hong Kong against other systems and it is not to be questioned in the world of martial arts.

It is questioned (for example) on this martial arts forum. Your statement "is not to be questioned" is wrong again.
And yes: STATEMENT NEEDS PROOF.

If Wing Chun is a fake system, how he was the top fighter?.

Being the best fighter among failures is not huge achievement.
One good fighter from a style means nothing. 100 good fighters from a style means something. BJJ is proven not because of Royce and first UFCs, but because of thousands other fighters who used succesfully BJJ in fights. The same wrestling, boxing, judo, sambo etc.

Additionally the subject was if one must combine the 2 systems. And i say that no one should not combine them. They have different mentality.

Wrestling and kyokushin have different mentality, too. Wrestling and boxing have different mentality, BJJ and Muai Thain have different mentality but there are thousands fighters who succesfully mixed them.
Sticking with one (especially as limited as Wing Chun) style is straight path to defeat.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Why not? Knowing him so well - also been in the school for a long time. I don't think it is bad
By the way, in Greece it is the most common name)

Not bad at all. Just assumed you were the same person until saw the third person posts, so wanted clarity. I've heard the name before, didn't realize it was the most common name though.

 

[nikthegreek_3]

For example I do not accept this , so your statement "accepted by everyone" is wrong. Sorry.

It is questioned (for example) on this martial arts forum. Your statement "is not to be questioned" is wrong again.
And yes: STATEMENT NEEDS PROOF.


Being the best fighter among failures is not huge achievement.
One good fighter from a style means nothing. 100 good fighters from a style means something. BJJ is proven not because of Royce and first UFCs, but because of thousands other fighters who used succesfully BJJ in fights. The same wrestling, boxing, judo, sambo etc.


Wrestling and kyokushin have different mentality, too. Wrestling and boxing have different mentality, BJJ and Muai Thain have different mentality but there are thousands fighters who succesfully mixed them.
Sticking with one (especially as limited as Wing Chun) style is straight path to defeat.

What you say is completely different from what i said. I said that Wing Chun and Boxing should not be combined because they have different mentality and one is opposite from the other. In case i didn't explain well, i say again: They have opposite principles: For example the straight spine that one has, compared to the always very flexible and leaning spine of the other. It is easier to combine BJJ with Wing Chun, than boxing with Wing chun. Because one's principles do not contradict the other's. (One is striking and the other is ground - they can complete each other).
As per combining systems: I didn;t say it is bad to know more that 1 system. If one knows 2 systems perfectly, of course it is better than knowing one. But if one knows 50% one system and 70% another (because he wanted to combine) i think it is a much worse choice.

 

[drop bear]

What you say is completely different from what i said. I said that Wing Chun and Boxing should not be combined because they have different mentality and one is opposite from the other. In case i didn't explain well, i say again: They have opposite principles: For example the straight spine that one has, compared to the always very flexible and leaning spine of the other. It is easier to combine BJJ with Wing Chun, than boxing with Wing chun. Because one's principles do not contradict the other's. (One is striking and the other is ground - they can complete each other).
As per combining systems: I didn;t say it is bad to know more that 1 system. If one knows 2 systems perfectly, of course it is better than knowing one. But if one knows 50% one system and 70% another (because he wanted to combine) i think it is a much worse choice.

Head movement and cutting angles would solve a lot of wing chuns issues though because you create a third layer of defence that you desperately need.

 

[Cynik75]

What you say is completely different from what i said...

You have said many thing and I have shown they are wrong or unproven. It means that your credibility is not very high.

The same I can say about statement "Wing chun and boxing should not be combined". IT IS FALSE STATEMENT.
Good fighter or even medium level should be able to change his fighting style during the fight. Because it may be necessary to quickly adapt to opponents new movement. Look at the Qi La La fights - he mixes WC with boxing quite well.

Last thing: the posted video is just the advertisement of "the only one true wing chun lineage". But without any proof of combat efficiency (other than anecdotal stories from beimo times) it means nothing.

 

[jobo]

What you say is completely different from what i said. I said that Wing Chun and Boxing should not be combined because they have different mentality and one is opposite from the other. In case i didn't explain well, i say again: They have opposite principles: For example the straight spine that one has, compared to the always very flexible and leaning spine of the other. It is easier to combine BJJ with Wing Chun, than boxing with Wing chun. Because one's principles do not contradict the other's. (One is striking and the other is ground - they can complete each other).
As per combining systems: I didn;t say it is bad to know more that 1 system. If one knows 2 systems perfectly, of course it is better than knowing one. But if one knows 50% one system and 70% another (because he wanted to combine) i think it is a much worse choice.

but thats rather the issue, the founding principals of wc are the very reason it tends to fair badly against boxers.

i think this is practically a false dichotomy , most asian ma come of bady against boxers, but as long as your not fighting a good level boxer they are fine.

however what your doibg in this thread is insisting that the principals ate fine and it will be effective against a reasonable boxer, with out any evidence at all that this is so, other than some bloke saying it is

 

[Flying Crane]

You have said many thing and I have shown they are wrong or unproven. It means that your credibility is not very high.

The same I can say about statement "Wing chun and boxing should not be combined". IT IS FALSE STATEMENT.
Good fighter or even medium level should be able to change his fighting style during the fight. Because it may be necessary to quickly adapt to opponents new movement. Look at the Qi La La fights - he mixes WC with boxing quite well.

Last thing: the posted video is just the advertisement of "the only one true wing chun lineage". But without any proof of combat efficiency (other than anecdotal stories from beimo times) it means nothing.

Why is it a “FALSE STATEMENT”? He has an opinion and reasons for it. You may disagree with his reasons. You may have reasons of your own for your disagreement. That does not make your position any more true than his might be false, or vice-versa.

Different people understand these things in different ways. If his statement is consistent with his understanding, then it is true. But it may not be the only truth. Your position may also be true, based on how you understand it.

Is one better than the other? Maybe. Maybe not.

We each find our own path, in the end. This isn’t a zero-sum game.

 

[Flying Crane]

Being the best fighter among failures is not huge achievement.
One good fighter from a style means nothing.

Do you really believe this describes wing Chun? Really? Nothing but failures? I could introduce you to some wing Chun fellows who I would want on my side if the **** went down. You won’t find them on youtube nor in the UFC. But they can fight.

Sticking with one (especially as limited as Wing Chun) style is straight path to defeat.

Do you mean in the context of mma competition? I don’t think anyone is confused about the need to develop the full range of skills needed to thrive within the rules of a competition. That is obvious.

Do you mean in self defense? Do you feel a wing Chun fellow simply cannot defend himself? That training in wing Chun is actually a liability for self defense? Surely not. You know better than that.

 

[drop bear]

Why is it a “FALSE STATEMENT”? He has an opinion and reasons for it. You may disagree with his reasons. You may have reasons of your own for your disagreement. That does not make your position any more true than his might be false, or vice-versa.

Different people understand these things in different ways. If his statement is consistent with his understanding, then it is true. But it may not be the only truth. Your position may also be true, based on how you understand it.

Is one better than the other? Maybe. Maybe not.

We each find our own path, in the end. This isn’t a zero-sum game.

Truth actually kind of is a zero-sum game. And why things that are not true tend to fail in blind trials.

It is pretty much the standard for finding out if magical powers really have an effect or not.

What you are describing is conformation bias. Which in itself is a lie.

 

[Callen]

Being the best fighter among failures is not huge achievement.

That's not much of a contribution to this particular forum. There are other locations on MartialTalk for people who don't train Wing Chun, perhaps one of them would be a better fit for you.

 

[drop bear]

That's not much of a contribution to this particular forum. There are other locations on MartialTalk for people who don't train Wing Chun, perhaps one of them would be a better fit for you.

But there are wing chun systems that do address that issue with live testing, cross training and seeking out expert advice.

Being a practical fighting system is definitely part of at least some wing chun methodology

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

They have opposite principles: For example the straight spine that one has, compared to the always very flexible and leaning spine of the other. It is easier to combine BJJ with Wing Chun, than boxing with Wing chun.

BJJ has hip throw that requires to bend spine too.

If there is a $100 bill on the ground, will a straight spine WC guy bend forward and pick it up?

The moment that you let "style" to put restriction on yourself, the moment you become the slave of that style.