VT_Vectis
Orange Belt
I second that!
Wing Chun vs. Boxing
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I second that!
Here is an example that in Taiji, you
- kick with your leading leg,
- grab and pull your opponent's wrist with your leading hand, and
- strike out your back hand.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGTtkKLiyt0&feature=youtu.be
If you have right leg forward and left hand forward posture (it's called "cross stance" in TCMA), you can perform exactly the same function as your WC stance can.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3KdRTSGA9I&feature=youtu.be
The advantage of the back weight stance is:
- When you move your back foot to touch the back of your front foot, the distance between you and your opponent has not changed yet. This will give you a buffer area to decide whether you want to continue your attack (by moving your leading foot forward), or just retreat (by moving your back foot back again). In WC stance, every step is a 100% committed step. You don't have that safe buffer area as the back weight stance has.
J W
Green Belt
On a side note, after watching the boxing v. WC video posted by Blindsage again, I noticed that the boxers are actually better utilizing WC concepts than the guy who is imitating WC. At the beginning of the video, when he throws out his imitation WC guard, he drops his right shoulder back and loses his facing. The boxer, on the other hand, is actually facing him square on, as opposed to the way we usually think of a "typical" boxing stance with one shoulder forward. The boxer has correct facing and equal hands; the "Wing Chun" guy does not.
Later in the video when he's discussing whoever it was that said they would just elbow the boxers punches and break his hands (huh?), he points out that his face is here and his elbow is way out here. Centerline. The boxer would be aiming his punch down centerline at his face, so an elbow way off to the side will do no good. He would need to bring his elbow all the way to the center in order for that to work, and at that point his hand is now way past center and it would take too long to get it back into the game. Yeah, well, we agree on that one. I wouldn't want my arm in that position, either (this also open you up to a biu sau and then your facing is completely lost).
So a couple of examples of where WC and boxing are similar. These guys don't know anything about WC and don't realize that they are utilizing some WC concepts- because the are using boxing concepts. They just happen to be the same.
Later in the video when he's discussing whoever it was that said they would just elbow the boxers punches and break his hands (huh?), he points out that his face is here and his elbow is way out here. Centerline. The boxer would be aiming his punch down centerline at his face, so an elbow way off to the side will do no good. He would need to bring his elbow all the way to the center in order for that to work, and at that point his hand is now way past center and it would take too long to get it back into the game. Yeah, well, we agree on that one. I wouldn't want my arm in that position, either (this also open you up to a biu sau and then your facing is completely lost).
So a couple of examples of where WC and boxing are similar. These guys don't know anything about WC and don't realize that they are utilizing some WC concepts- because the are using boxing concepts. They just happen to be the same.
These Shuai chiao (?) guys are leaning forward so much that their stance is nowhere near a "back-weighted" stance. It looks more like 50%-50% weighting.
??? KFW -- What lineage of WC did you train that used "100% committed stepping"? To the contrary, the two main branches I studied both used back-weighting, and the one I've studied longest coming from Yip Man via Leung Ting uses back total weighting even when stepping so that the lead leg is always free to attack and defend.
My old Chinese sifu has demonstrated this in an old video now on Youtube, but it's pretty long, so instead I posted the short clip below in which an instructor from the same general lineage gives a good short demo.
http://www.howcast.com/videos/509884-How-to-Do-Seung-Ma-aka-Advancing-Step-Wing-Chun
I have no issue with back weight stance. As long as you have one leg forward and one leg backward, the weight distribution (whether it's 100/0, 70/30, 50/50, 40/60, 30/70, 0/100) depends on your application. When both of your feet have same distance from your opponent's leading foot, no matter which leg that you may move, you will alter the distance between you and your opponent.
wingchun100
Senior Master
Argh! I'm dying to comment, but I am at work and YouTube is blocked here. The only boxing video I know that Izzo has done is with the "52 blocks" guy. I watched that video before. From what he was saying, it didn't seem to me like the 52 blocks guy had a complete understanding of wing chun even though he said he had trained in it too.
Having said that, I do believe we need to find a way to train more realistically against other styles. For example, a boxer wouldn't just leave a jab hanging out there for you to counter. By the time you reach to pak sao a jab, the boxer has already pulled his arm back. Then again, since everyone in my class trains in wing chun and not boxing, I guess the only way around that would be to bring in a boxer for a demonstration.
Actually it'd be kind of cool to do a whole series of classes like that: this week we have a grappler, next week a TKD guy, etc. I'd love to get practice against the real thing instead of one wing chun person just pretending to do the other style.
Having said that, I do believe we need to find a way to train more realistically against other styles. For example, a boxer wouldn't just leave a jab hanging out there for you to counter. By the time you reach to pak sao a jab, the boxer has already pulled his arm back. Then again, since everyone in my class trains in wing chun and not boxing, I guess the only way around that would be to bring in a boxer for a demonstration.
Actually it'd be kind of cool to do a whole series of classes like that: this week we have a grappler, next week a TKD guy, etc. I'd love to get practice against the real thing instead of one wing chun person just pretending to do the other style.
That is definitely the way to go. My old si-sok was a kick boxer back in Germany. He gave us a couple of excellent clinics on boxing basics. I'm an old shaolin guy, so from time to time I give kicking clinics. I've brought in boxers, other striking arts such as kenpo, kajukenbo, TKD and various grapplers to do clinics for our group.
The goal is to first learn a little bit about other methods so that when we defend against, say a boxing jab, the guys have a pretty good grasp on how to throw one correctly instead of throwing some half baked imitation.
We also use the opportunity of these guest instructors to allow the guys to see if what they're doing can be applied effectively against someone who is well versed in another art.
He does make a funny/good point about a lot of the 'bad' WC vs boxing demo videos out there. BUT, if you watch the video, while it's clearly obvious he has no admitted WC experience, he actually uses centerline occupation and the bong sau to roll the 'boxer' off his center effectively against the 1-2, somewhat dis-proving his point (@2:45). Still a funny clip though.
