How to Box with Wing Chun

[VT_Vectis]

You CAN'T use boxing with wing chun, it totally DESTROYS the wing chun making it crappy and useless. Wing chun is the only FULLY CONCEPTUAL martial art on the planet. Boxing is technique-based, meaning,the techniques dictate the response, not the concepts, making it stiff, rigid and limited in it's response. So by adding boxing, you are making your wing chun stiff, rigid and limit, as opposed to flexible and unlimited. What you see on you tube is unskilled, MODIFIED wing chun, NOT the traditional, which is complete. You want to make wing chun better and make sure it works on the street?? Well, then learn TRADITIONAL and learn the complete system!

I love Ving Tsun as much as the next guy, and I'm not sure if you're just going on what you're Sifu has told you, but Ving Tsun is far from the only concept based Fighting System on the planet. There's plenty out there. It's like people saying that Chi São is unique to wing chun; look at most any Southern Style, Southern Mantis, for example, and you'll find sensitivity training that is basically chi Sau.

Also I think if you look in to old style boxing you'd be very surprised by what you find. KPM's videos make a great deal of sense. I think anyone who refuses to accept that their truth is not the only truth, and that it might not be all you need, is frankly limiting their potential for growth, making them rigid, and inflexible of mind.

Countless masters learnt other styles to increase their own understanding of how to use their style to its full potential. As for "Modified" and "Traditional"... Well, if it works for you, then fair play but I still have a problem with the whole concept. Think I'll stick with the more believable "Modified" Ving Tsun of Wong Shun Leung, and an open, inquisitive mind.

With respect,
Your brother in Ving Tsun.

 

[drop bear]

I love Ving Tsun as much as the next guy, and I'm not sure if you're just going on what you're Sifu has told you, but Ving Tsun is far from the only concept based Fighting System on the planet. There's plenty out there. It's like people saying that Chi São is unique to wing chun; look at most any Southern Style, Southern Mantis, for example, and you'll find sensitivity training that is basically chi Sau.

Also I think if you look in to old style boxing you'd be very surprised by what you find. KPM's videos make a great deal of sense. I think anyone who refuses to accept that their truth is not the only truth, and that it might not be all you need, is frankly limiting their potential for growth, making them rigid, and inflexible of mind.

Countless masters learnt other styles to increase their own understanding of how to use their style to its full potential. As for "Modified" and "Traditional"... Well, if it works for you, then fair play but I still have a problem with the whole concept. Think I'll stick with the more believable "Modified" Ving Tsun of Wong Shun Leung, and an open, inquisitive mind.

With respect,
Your brother in Ving Tsun.

Concepts driven vs results driven?

 

[KPM]

You CAN'T use boxing with wing chun, it totally DESTROYS the wing chun making it crappy and useless. Wing chun is the only FULLY CONCEPTUAL martial art on the planet. Boxing is technique-based, meaning,the techniques dictate the response, not the concepts, making it stiff, rigid and limited in it's response. So by adding boxing, you are making your wing chun stiff, rigid and limit, as opposed to flexible and unlimited. What you see on you tube is unskilled, MODIFIED wing chun, NOT the traditional, which is complete. You want to make wing chun better and make sure it works on the street?? Well, then learn TRADITIONAL and learn the complete system!

Yada Yada Yada Yada! So what I show is "crappy and useless"? Well, its the very TRADITIONAL guys that typically can't spar or fight worth a damn and only show Chi Sau videos. Or, that when they do put up some kind of sparring video it looks like some form of sloppy kickboxing. So pontificate all you want. I've heard it before!

 

[KPM]

Well then you are going to go down because you are leaning back and your energy is going backwards, not forward. I think you better go back to William cheung's system, it apparently is much better. I know, that is the system I do. It is the most complete system out there.

Oh! So that's what you meant by "traditional"! Another true believer!

 

[KPM]

It may be faster, but it isn't as safe as stepping to the outside of your opponent's attacking arm,as in the William Cheung system. If you ever fought an experienced boxer, he'd be kicking the **** out of you, because he uses multiple attacks.

Wow! You really are clueless, aren't you!? And I'll bet you didn't even watch my videos.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Oh! So that's what you meant by "traditional"! Another true believer!

When you "evolve" a system, some "traditional" people will feel threaten as if you have just slapped on their faces. This is understandable and expectable.

Since the kick/punch had been removed from the "traditional SC" during the ancient time, when the "traditional SC" was evolved into "combat SC (CC)" 35 years ago by adding kick/punch back in, some "traditional SC" guys said that the "traditional SC" was already "combat" enough and there was no need to evolve. After many "combat SC (CC)" guys did pretty good in the Sanda/Sanshou rings, those criticizing stopped.

Not everybody will have the courage to "evolve". I had suggested a Judo friend of mine to evolve Gi training into no-Gi training 30 years ago. Today, he is still afraid to step beyond that boundary.

If your "evolved WC" can produce good fighters, that's all it matter. 1,000 years from today, people will still appreciate your effort.

 

[geezer]

I think you better go back to William cheung's system, it apparently is much better. I know, that is the system I do. It is the most complete system out there.

Way to go "wingchun guy"! Great monologue of nine posts in a row basically insulting everyone else on the forum while bragging about how what you study is the only "real" WC and is "the most complete system out there". When you come across like such an incredible jerk, (and I'm being nice here) it saves everybody else the trouble of having to bother refuting your silly comments.

 

[Tames D]

Well then you are going to go down because you are leaning back and your energy is going backwards, not forward. I think you better go back to William cheung's system, it apparently is much better. I know, that is the system I do. It is the most complete system out there.

Isn't William Cheung the Wing Chun Master that rolled around on the floor with Emin Bozetrepe, demonstating that they both couldn't fight their way out of a wet paper bag? Is that the complete Wing Chun that you practice?

 

[Danny T]

What is your definition of 'traditional' and how does it relate to your stating Traditional Wing Chun is the most complete and what definition of 'complete' are you using and show how that relates.

Traditional:
: an inherited, established, or customary pattern of thought, action, or behavior (as a religious practice or a social custom)
: beliefs or stories relating to the past that are commonly accepted as historical though not verifiable

: the handing down of information, beliefs, and customs by word of mouth or by example from one generation to another without written instruction


: cultural social attitudes, customs, and institutions


Complete:


: having all necessary parts : not lacking anything
: not limited in any way

: not requiring more work : entirely done or completed


If you are of the thought that one system is complete and lacking nothing, that there is absolutely no limiting in an manner or that nothing can be made better you are caught up in the tradition of foolish belief.

 

[geezer]

'

Isn't William Cheung the Wing Chun Master that rolled around on the floor with Emin Bozetrepe, demonstating that they both couldn't fight their way out of a wet paper bag? Is that the complete Wing Chun that you practice?

Now, now. Both these guys were good stand-up fighters in their prime --Emin was a freakin' beast. And at the time of that fight (late 1980s), neither had developed much of a ground game (I know for a fact that Emin worked with some top grapplers after this to fix that). The problem is Wingchunguy's ridiculous claims and style-bashing.

Besides, how many of you have actually fought your way out of a wet paper bag. You know the real thing with thick paper and all? :hmm:

 

[Tames D]

Now, now. Both these guys were good stand-up fighters in their prime --Emin was a freakin' beast. And at the time of that fight (late 1980s), neither had developed much of a ground game (I know for a fact that Emin worked with some top grapplers after this to fix that). The problem is Wingchunguys ridiculous claims and style-bashing.

Besides, how many of you have actually fought your way out of a wet paper bag. You know the real thing with thick paper and all?:hmm:

Well I have to admit, the wet paper bag has always been my nemesis.

 

[mograph]

Well I have to admit, the wet paper bag has always been my nemesis.

No system is complete without wet paper bag training.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

No system is complete without wet paper bag training.

Let's get serious. If you find yourself having to fight your way out of a wet paper bag, you messed up a long time ago. You should never have let someone put you into a wet paper bag in the first place. Once you're in there, things get pretty ugly.

 

[yak sao]

Let's get serious. If you find yourself having to fight your way out of a wet paper bag, you messed up a long time ago. You should never have let someone put you into a wet paper bag in the first place. Once you're in there, things get pretty ugly.

It messes up my hair

 

[wingchunguy]

The 50/50 weight distribution is the best because it allows you to maintain structural integrity and also allows you to move quickly and maintain balance, which is CRUCIAL in wing chun. The 70/30 stance has your energy going BACKWARDS and if a stronger and quicker opponent is able to enter, he will jam your techniques and cause your energy to go backwards, unbalancing you and causing an opening in your defenses he can exploit easily. The superman punch is not WC and should not be mixed with wing chun. Any other system other than wing chun causes your wing chun to weaken and may cause a failure that may cause you to lose the fight, especially against experienced opponents that move around quickly and use multiple angles, like boxers.


QUOTE="Kung Fu Wang, post: 1663823, member: 28970"]I like many things that you have shown in your clip such as to keep your Kua loose. You have open mind and that's a good thing. But IMO, you can open your mind even further. If you believe that pigeon toed stance is for training, you should not let your training to "restrict" your combat application. Why do you want to let your 50-50 weight distribution to set any physical limitation on yourself. Will you do a "superman punch" if you have the opportunity to finish a fight and knock your opponent out?

To be honest, every time that I work the "superman punch" on my punching bag (or striking dummy), I truly don't know what style that I'm training at that particular moment. It's the shock that come back from my striking target, that gives me the satisfaction. As long as I know that I can use it to knock down my opponent if needed, that's all I care about.

I know the 0-0 weight distribution "superman punch" is not WC. It's just an example that there are more different weight distribution than 50-50. Since you want to discuss "how to box with WC", I assume you may want to discuss more than just WC, but I can be wrong and may be you want to talk about "only WC".

[/QUOTE]

 

[wingchunguy]

Are you people bringing back "The wet look"??

 

[wingchunguy]

Well, first and foremost....don't just walk right into them with your hands down!!!! :-O

Secondly, the guy is telegraphing his punches, so don't be on the end of them when they come!

Third, since he is telegraphing and committing a lot of power to his punches, a good side step with a Pak or Biu and he is going to go off-balance pretty readily. Then close in!

Fourth, play the "boxing game" a bit. He is punching with everything he's got. So stay just far enough away from him and let him throw a few and get tired. Then close in on him between punches.

The first thing you said is correct. Always keep your hands up and close to the center. Right, when the punch comes, rotate your body and step to the outside of the attacking hand, trapping the hand when it returns, and also the leg, using chi gerk (sticky legs), and simultaneously counter, not stopping until the attacker is rendered unable to continue. Never play the boxing game and NEVER, EVER STEP BACK! You are sending your energy backwards, and you are lengthening the distance between you to mid range, which is his strong suit. Always go forward or to the side, then enter. If he kicks, enter, which will jam his kick and possibly through him off balance, causing an opening in his defenses you can exploit.

 

[geezer]

The 50/50 weight distribution is the best because it allows you to maintain structural integrity and also allows you to move quickly and maintain balance, which is CRUCIAL in wing chun. The 70/30 stance has your energy going BACKWARDS ...

Kind of over-simplifying aren't you? I've seen good fighters work from back-weighted (70-30, etc.), neutral (50-50), and front weighted stances. Each brings strengths and liabilities. The fighter and the situation will determine which is most effective.

Now I trained in a couple of WC systems that favor back weighting. I can assure you that weighting the back leg does not mean that "your energy is going backwards" any more than weighting the front leg would mean that your energy is going forward. Now shifting your weight from neutral to the back leg might cause your energy to go back. On the other hand I've seen my Eskrima instructor maintain powerful forward pressure even while retreating! Same is true for WC.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Admittedly I have not read ever single post in 4 pages of this thread but IMHO the entire concept is flawed. AS soon as you say how do I use Art 'A' to fight more like art 'B' you have lost art A.

How to Box with Wing Chun? You use wing chun, you do not use boxing at all.... as soon as you try and change Wing Chun to boxing or try and box like a (western) boxer you will lose all your Wing Chun structure and training and you will end up with a lot of people saying "see Wing Chun doesn't work" but yet they never saw wing chun. What they saw was a Wing Chun guy trying to be a boxer

 

[yak sao]

Admittedly I have not read ever single post in 4 pages of this thread but IMHO the entire concept is flawed. AS soon as you say how do I use Art 'A' to fight more like art 'B' you have lost art A.

How to Box with Wing Chun? You use wing chun, you do not use boxing at all.... as soon as you try and change Wing Chun to boxing or try and box like a (western) boxer you will lose all your Wing Chun structure and training and you wil lend up with a lot of people saying "see Wing Chun doesn't work" but yet they never saw wing chun. What they saw was a Wing Chun guy trying to be a boxer

Thank you.