Are women disadvantaged in striking arts/styles?

[Tony Dismukes]

I have struggled to find a comparable striker. I was going in with the idea that a gun fighter is a gun fighter regardless of style. Haven't really found an example.

Having said that striking styles are less likely to match people up like that.

Yeah, you can have absolute divisions in grappling tournaments without so much danger of someone getting seriously hurt. If you want to see that sort of mismatch in striking you have to look to the early days of MMA, before they instituted weight classes. Keith Hackney vs Emmanuel Yarborough is an example of a striker beating a much larger opponent.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

I have a question for everyone.....

Where you train - when it's time for sparring/rolling, are people matched up by size? By gender? By ability? I know everyone eventually spars/rolls with everyone else, but I mean in a general "usually" sense?

It's mostly pretty random, anybody with anybody. I do try to make sure female students go with more experienced partners that I trust to have control and not go balls to the wall. We had one of our more promising female students injured and out of training for a few weeks recently because she was rolling with a kid who thought it was a good idea to slam on an armbar full speed. We're trying to make sure that doesn't happen again.

 

[ballen0351]

If you want to see that sort of mismatch in striking you have to look to the early days of MMA, before they instituted weight classes.

Or countless clips on youtube( martial talk holy Bible) of woman knocking out men or little guys knocking out big guys or teenagers knocking out adults ect.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

So no techniques needed to punch just body mass?

Effectiveness = Size x Technique. If I'm twice as big as you and our technique is equal, then I'm probably going to be hitting twice as hard. (I'm also probably going to be significantly harder to knock out. This may as big a factor as who hits harder.)

The smaller you are, the more technique you are going to need in order to punch effectively.

 

[drop bear]

So no techniques needed to punch just body mass?

Technique is needed as well but at some stage body mass plays a part. Gravity effects everybody equally.

 

[ballen0351]

Effectiveness = Size x Technique. If I'm twice as big as you and our technique is equal, then I'm probably going to be hitting twice as hard. (I'm also probably going to be significantly harder to knock out. This may as big a factor as who hits harder.)

The smaller you are, the more technique you are going to need in order to punch effectively.

You leaving out speed in your math. bullets are small but very effective

 

[drop bear]

I have a question for everyone.....

Where you train - when it's time for sparring/rolling, are people matched up by size? By gender? By ability? I know everyone eventually spars/rolls with everyone else, but I mean in a general "usually" sense?

In general during technique we are matched up by weight. But rolling/sparring is everybody.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

You leaving out speed in your math. bullets are small but very effective

Yeah, I was grossly simplifying the equation in order to just address the elements (size and technique) that Tez mentioned in her comment. I considered adding more elements, but decided that I would be overcomplicating my point.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Effectiveness = Size x Technique.

Not exactly, F = (m)(a)

Force = Mass X Acceleration

Therefore by Newton's second law if you have less Mass but increase the Acceleration you increase force and thereby have the ability to hit as hard or harder than someone with greater mass

 

[Hanzou]

So you posted the OP to make the point yet again the BJJ is better than stand up arts.

I posted the OP because I was curious. However, I would be lying if I said that my own experiences didn't enhance that curiosity. Getting manhandled by a woman half your size will do that to you.

Further, if my wife and daughter were looking for a martial art to take, I don't know if I could recommend a style dedicated to striking.

And more videos. Are you on commission with You Tube?

I use Youtube to illustrate my point and to provide evidence. Sorry if you don't approve, but I think providing objective examples enhances the discussion.

 

[drop bear]

Not exactly, F = (m)(a)

Force = Mass X Acceleration

Therefore by Newton's second law if you have less Mass but increase the Acceleration you increase force and thereby have the ability to hit as hard or harder than someone with greater mass

If we were a stick which we are not. Achieving a hard damaging punch is a lot more complicated.

 

[ballen0351]

Yeah, I was grossly simplifying the equation in order to just address the elements (size and technique) that Tez mentioned in her comment. I considered adding more elements, but decided that I would be overcomplicating my point.

I understand but speed is usually a much more important factor then mass. However I doubt humans can generate enough speed to make a real difference

 

[ballen0351]

Sorry if you don't approve, but I think providing objective examples enhances the discussion.

except its not objective. I could make a video claiming anything I want and post it as proof you have no iead of the context or training level or circumstances of what you post.

 

[Hanzou]

except its not objective. I could make a video claiming anything I want and post it as proof you have no iead of the context or training level or circumstances of what you post.

The OP vid was a black belt test. The more recent vid shows two purple belts in Bjj in competition.

You're really trying to argue that we have no idea what the context or training level are in those vids? :uhoh:

 

[Xue Sheng]

If we were a stick which we are not. Achieving a hard damaging punch is a lot more complicated.

If the fact we were not a stick meant that we were beyond the laws of physics then you might be right...but we are not beyond the laws of physics. That my friend is basic physics and it applies no matter how much you may, or may not, like it...sorry that is scientific fact F = ma... and it is no more complicated than that.

 

[ballen0351]

The OP vid was a black belt test. The more recent vid shows two purple belts in Bjj in competition

You're really trying to argue that we have no idea what the context or training level are in those vids? :uhoh:

Yep Ill post a vid tommorrow of me in a BJJ black belt and have my wife knock me out and post it as proof BJJ black belt gets KOed by Soccer Mom. You have no idea who these girls where, where they train, how they train, what they did before they filmed the video, ect.
When I went to Swat School you had to pass a strength and agility test. Well You take it at the end of the first day it consisted of many things including Push ups, Pull Ups, sprints, sit ups. Guess what They KILLED us all day for 10 hours then said ok lets take the test. EVERYONE failed I did 2 push ups for the test If you filmed my test put it on youtube your impressions of my physical conditioning would be very poor. You would have no idea I had gotten my but killed for hours prior. A 3 min clip has ZERO context. You believe its proof I believe it means nothing.

 

[drop bear]

If the fact we were not a stick meant that we were beyond the laws of physics then you might be right...but we are not beyond the laws of physics. That my friend is basic physics and it applies no matter how much you may, or may not, like it...sorry that is scientific fact F = ma... and it is no more complicated than that.

So if I punch with one foot off the ground but at the same speed and mass I will hit as hard as if I had both feet on the ground.

More involved.

http://www.physicsclassroom.com/class/momentum/Lesson-1/Real-World-Applications

Wow really more involved.
https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/the-physics-behind-a-punch.771726/

 

[geezer]

If the fact we were not a stick meant that we were beyond the laws of physics then you might be right...but we are not beyond the laws of physics. That my friend is basic physics and it applies no matter how much you may, or may not, like it...sorry that is scientific fact F = ma... and it is no more complicated than that.

F=ma is a good start but... No more complicated? I'm no physicist, but I think it is. Although "force is force", impact or the transfer of force is a good deal more complicated. The target you hit is very important, and especially the degree of softness or flexibility of that target will affect the rate of deceleration of the punch, and so will affect the impact. Other factors such as how you release the power, how small is the contact area ( a palm, three knuckles, or two, or one, etc.) and a bunch of other factors come into play.

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/impact-force-d_1780.html


Xue, you and I have spent a lot of time in CMA. Now I don't know about you, but personally, I'm nowhere near figuring out everything about punching power.

 

[drop bear]

F=ma is a good start but... No more complicated? I'm no physicist, but I think it is. Although "force is force" impact, or the transfer of force is a good deal more complicated. The target you hit is very important, and especially the degree of softness or flexibility of that target will affect the rate of deceleration of the punch, and so will affect the impact. Other factors such as how you release the power, how small is the contact area ( a palm, three knuckles, or two, or one, etc.) and a bunch of other factors come into play.

I mean really Xue. You and I have spent a lot of time in CMA. Now I don't know about you, but personally, I'm nowhere near figuring out everything about punching power.

And I think punching power is measured in pressure. Which I have no real idea about as a physics term.

 

[Hanzou]

Yep Ill post a vid tommorrow of me in a BJJ black belt and have my wife knock me out and post it as proof BJJ black belt gets KOed by Soccer Mom.

And the purpose behind that vid would be what exactly?

You have no idea who these girls where,

Their names are in the description.

where they train,

Cross reference their instructor's names (in the comment section) with style (TSD). Google is your friend (or stalker :ticked

how they train, what they did before they filmed the video, ect.

I can get a lot of that information from the video provided.