Thoughts on ATA TKD?

[RobinTKD]

I wonder if there has ever been much discussion to make Karate an Olympic sport. It seems that Shotokan-style competition would fit in well.

Japan were bidding to put sport karate (the one where you don't need to make contact to score) into the Seoul Olympics, as TKD was chosen, the Olympic committee decided not to have 2 striking arts in there. I personally think that had they put forward full contact style Shotokan or Kyokushinkai, they may have had a better chance.

 

[puunui]

I wonder if there has ever been much discussion to make Karate an Olympic sport. It seems that Shotokan-style competition would fit in well.

It was announced by the IOC this past summer that Karate, along with Wushu and some other sports, have been fast tracked for consideration for the 2020 Olympic Games. This announcement has made a lot of taekwondo practitioners nervous, because why would the IOC fast track two sports that are in direct competition with taekwondo, unless they were seriously thinking of removing taekwondo from the summer Olympic program.

 

[SPX]

Ok thanks. Utah wasn't a big supporter of the USTU. I know there are some kukki taekwondo instructors in your state, but not many.

These are the only two that I'm aware of in the Salt Lake area, though I'm sure that are at least a few schools that I haven't heard about:

http://katkd.com/
http://www.saltlaketaekwondo.com/

 

[SPX]

Japan were bidding to put sport karate (the one where you don't need to make contact to score) into the Seoul Olympics, as TKD was chosen, the Olympic committee decided not to have 2 striking arts in there. I personally think that had they put forward full contact style Shotokan or Kyokushinkai, they may have had a better chance.

It was announced by the IOC this past summer that Karate, along with Wushu and some other sports, have been fast tracked for consideration for the 2020 Olympic Games. This announcement has made a lot of taekwondo practitioners nervous, because why would the IOC fast track two sports that are in direct competition with taekwondo, unless they were seriously thinking of removing taekwondo from the summer Olympic program.

Interesting.

I personally think that Olympic TKD is different enough from both karate and wushu that they are only vaguely competitors, especially wushu.

Also, 2020 . . . long time to wait, but I guess in Olympic terms, it's not that long.

 

[RobinTKD]

I think it would be good to see all three in there too. Look at track and field, is discus throwing a direct competitor to javelin or shotput? Is the 400m in competition with the 800m? Same with cycling, swimming (is the indoor 'sprints' in competition with the outdoor swims?) they have both indoor AND outdoor volleyball, i see no reason why they shouldn't include Taekwondo, Karate (preferably shotokan) and Wushu.

 

[SPX]

I'm trying to figure out how wushu would be done. Would it be a forms competition? Would there be sanshou?

 

[SPX]

From what I see and from my own experience, grafting on elements from other martial arts occurs when a practitioner is unable or unwilling to learn the entire content of their own original system. But that is like taking pieces from one jigsaw puzzle and force fitting those pieces into another puzzle. Sure you get less empty spaces like that, but the original puzzle ends up getting distorted.

You could argue that, as times change, then martial arts should, too. Now that we know the importance of grappling and having at least a basic understanding of how to wrestle with a person, some might say that it would be foolish to not add this kind material into the curriculum. It may "distort the original puzzle," but is that a problem is the original puzzle has been shown to be, for lack of a better way to say it, inadequate?

 

[RobinTKD]

You could argue that, as times change, then martial arts should, too. Now that we know the importance of grappling and having at least a basic understanding of how to wrestle with a person, some might say that it would be foolish to not add this kind material into the curriculum. It may "distort the original puzzle," but is that a problem is the original puzzle has been shown to, for lack of a better way to say it, inadequate?

With the grappling aspects, we do have clinches in patterns such as Choong-Moo, and ground fighting in Choong Jang, so it is already there in the syllabus, but i suppose it depends on how the teacher shows these techniques. I can't speak for the KKW poomsae, as i don't know it well enough, but i imagine they have it too.

 

[SPX]

One of those lost bits unfortunately. By and large weapons just isn't practiced by taekwondoin today and those that do mostly have introduced it from another source like Okinawan or Filipino arts.

It seems to me that weapons are all over TKD today. When I first started looking at taekwondo again about 5 years ago after paying it very little attention for over a decade, I was SHOCKED to find all these schools teaching weapons.

I was like, what do nunchaku have to do with TKD? But that doesn't mean that I'm opposed to it. There was a time when I would've hated it and called it untraditional, but I'm a lot more easy going now with more of a "whatever floats your boat" mentality.

 

[SPX]

With the grappling aspects, we do have clinches in patterns such as Choong-Moo, and ground fighting in Choong Jang, so it is already there in the syllabus, but i suppose it depends on how the teacher shows these techniques. I can't speak for the KKW poomsae, as i don't know it well enough, but i imagine they have it too.

I think there's a big difference between it being in the patterns, and there actually being a curriculum for doing hip throws, chokes, and pins. At the last ITF school I attended, we did do some hapkido-style grappling in the ho sin sul classes, which was nice. There was nothing really in the way of actual ground fighting, though.

 

[RobinTKD]

I think there's a big difference between it being in the patterns, and there actually being a curriculum for doing hip throws, chokes, and pins. At the last ITF school I attended, we did do some hapkido-style grappling in the ho sin sul classes, which was nice. There was nothing really in the way of actual ground fighting, though.

Yes this is unfortunately lacking in most TKD schools, as well as karate schools. But if it's in the patterns/kata, why shouldn't we be learning it, and putting in just as much effort as we do on standing techniques? Just like weapons training, i'm told that some of the movements (none that i know for definite though) in the patterns are there to show you how to defend against, or use a weapon. I'm also told that it was the original intention of General Choi to include weapons training, though i'm not sure how much truth there is in that.

 

[SPX]

Personally, I would at least like to see the judo white belt curriculum added into TKD. Just with that alone you would get a handful of bread-and-butter throws, four pins, and the armbar and RNC. If you could just master those skills right there and gain an understanding of the underlying body mechanics of basic wrestling then you would be able to handle 90% of people in a self-defense situation.

 

[SPX]

I'm just gonna leave this here. . .

 

[SPX]

^^^ The XMA uniforms really crack me up. I don't have anything against XMA and think it's actually kind of cool, but the uniforms. . .

Just watching those last two vids you can tell that the target audience really is kids.

Also, what's up with the little salute at :35 of the third vid?

 

[dancingalone]

It seems to me that weapons are all over TKD today. When I first started looking at taekwondo again about 5 years ago after paying it very little attention for over a decade, I was SHOCKED to find all these schools teaching weapons.

I was like, what do nunchaku have to do with TKD? But that doesn't mean that I'm opposed to it. There was a time when I would've hated it and called it untraditional, but I'm a lot more easy going now with more of a "whatever floats your boat" mentality.

IMO there's little of quality weapons work, nunchaku included. Lots of kids twirling foam 'chuks' and thinking they are running nunchaku however. What passes for weapons practice these days pains me.

 

[SPX]

IMO there's little of quality weapons work, nunchaku included. Lots of kids twirling foam 'chuks' and thinking they are running nunchaku however. What passes for weapons practice these days pains me.

Like this?

 

[puunui]

You could argue that, as times change, then martial arts should, too. Now that we know the importance of grappling and having at least a basic understanding of how to wrestle with a person, some might say that it would be foolish to not add this kind material into the curriculum. It may "distort the original puzzle," but is that a problem is the original puzzle has been shown to be, for lack of a better way to say it, inadequate?

You can add brazilian jiujitsu if you want. What I would do is keep it as a separate art and practice it separately, as opposed to blending into the taekwondo curriculum. That way, you are working on two puzzles at the same time, as opposed to blending two separate puzzles into one.

 

[Cyriacus]

Like this?

I have never held a Nunchuck.
I never want to see that Video again

 

[Earl Weiss]

With the grappling aspects, we do have clinches in patterns such as Choong-Moo, and ground fighting in Choong Jang, so it is already there in the syllabus, but i suppose it depends on how the teacher shows these techniques. I can't speak for the KKW poomsae, as i don't know it well enough, but i imagine they have it too.

While their is aground striking curriculum in gneral Chois encyclopedia standing graplling is nominal and ground grappling is really non existant.

 

[Earl Weiss]

You could argue that, as times change, then martial arts should, too. Now that we know the importance of grappling and having at least a basic understanding of how to wrestle with a person, some might say that it would be foolish to not add this kind material into the curriculum. It may "distort the original puzzle," but is that a problem is the original puzzle has been shown to be, for lack of a better way to say it, inadequate?

That is like saying firearm training is not adequate as a sole means of Self defense so we should add empty hand self defense as part of firearm training. It would really be a misnomer. You can teach TKD as a striking curriculm for self defense and BJJ as the grappling curriculum. That won't make the grappling TKD, nor will it make the striking BJJ, and there is no reason it should.