Sport And TMA....Again

[ballen0351]

I think that the AKBAN is a separate organization, that uses bujinkan techniques but because they have extra stuff they created there own org. From my understanding the entire AKBAN organization teaches bjj techniques. I have seen some of there sparring videos and they often devolve into ground grappling. Some of them are quite good.

So its a new style all its own and not ninjitsu at all.

 

[jks9199]

Well that's a pretty strange comparison. In many ways Gjj is more traditional than Judo. Kano's goal was to make Judo an Olympic sport. Helio Gracie's goal was to create a practical fighting system. You're already seeing some division between more traditional Bjj, and more sport/MMA based Bjj. That said, all Bjj schools, Gjj or otherwise encourage competition. I would also say that Judo is far more resistant to change than Bjj. The embrace of No Gi in Bjj vs its virtual non-existence in Judo is a prime example.

No, Kano didn't create judo to get to the Olympics. Just no. Where on Earth are you finding these ideas?

 

[Kframe]

So its a new style all its own and not ninjitsu at all.

Ya I guess your right, but by that same token the Bujinkan isn't ninjutsu either.

 

[Hanzou]

No, Kano didn't create judo to get to the Olympics. Just no. Where on Earth are you finding these ideas?

I didn't say that he created Judo for that purpose, I said it was his goal (part of the reason he served on the olympic committee was to get Judo into the games). It's also why Judo became part of the Olympics.

 

[Hanzou]

So its a new style all its own and not ninjitsu at all.

The Akban definitely consider themselves a Ninjutsu style.

 

[TFP]

Ok all battles and banter aside EVERYONE watch this video! This is some "legit ninja ***** to BJJ" right here! If you can't get excited about this than get the hell out of the Martial Arts world...........: respectively.

[yt]LH26uFeIIaw[/yt]i

 

[Spinedoc]

Ok all battles and banter aside EVERYONE watch this video! This is some "legit ninja **** to BJJ" right here! If you can't get excited about this than get the hell out of the Martial Arts world!!!!

[yt]LH26uFeIIaw[/yt]

I would only comment that my excitement about the martial arts has nothing to do with cages, fights, or competition. It also does not need your approval or validation.

It's an internal thing, not dependent on external factors.

Also, the martial arts world is not defined by your parameters. MMA/UFC stuff is only a very small part of the martial arts world. It may be the loudest, but as with most loud things, it is certainly not the biggest.

Just my thoughts....

Peace always,

Mike

Anata no ken ga anata no soba de taiki ***** iru ma no heiwa wa itsumo, anatanokokoroni sunde iru koto ga arimasu.

あなたの剣があなたの側で待機している間の平和はいつも、あなたの心に住んでいることがあります。​

 

[ballen0351]

The Akban definitely consider themselves a Ninjutsu style.

Doesn't matter what they consider themselves if they don'tsubscribe to ninjutsu pprinciples then its not ninjutsu. I can call myself a BJJ guy if I want but it doesn't make it true

 

[Xue Sheng]

Kano's goal was to make Judo an Olympic sport.

No, no it wasn't.... at least not based on verifiable historical facts....

 

[TFP]

I would only comment that my excitement about the martial arts has nothing to do with cages, fights, or competition. It also does not need your approval or validation.

It's an internal thing, not dependent on external factors.

Also, the martial arts world is not defined by your parameters. MMA/UFC stuff is only a very small part of the martial arts world. It may be the loudest, but as with most loud things, it is certainly not the biggest.

Just my thoughts....

Peace always,

Mike

Anata no ken ga anata no soba de taiki ***** iru ma no heiwa wa itsumo, anatanokokoroni sunde iru koto ga arimasu.

あなたの剣があなたの側で待機している間の平和はいつも、あなたの心に住んでいることがあります。​

Profound, boring as fvck, but very deep and meaningful non the less.......

Not cool and exciting enough to shake a smile out of you huh? Meh, I tried.

 

[Hanzou]

Doesn't matter what they consider themselves if they don'tsubscribe to ninjutsu pprinciples then its not ninjutsu. I can call myself a BJJ guy if I want but it doesn't make it true

What exactly are "Ninjutsu Principles"? To my knowledge Masaki Hatsumi plays everything pretty loose over at the Bujinkan, leaving his disciples to develop their own Ninjutsu.

 

[Hanzou]

No, no it wasn't.... at least not based on verifiable historical facts....

If Kano didn't want Judo in the Olympics, it wouldn't be in the Olympics. Nor would the Olympic aspect of Judo have so much power and sway in the Judo world.

 

[ballen0351]

What exactly are "Ninjutsu Principles"? To my knowledge Masaki Hatsumi plays everything pretty loose over at the Bujinkan, leaving his disciples to develop their own Ninjutsu.

I have no idea you would have to ask Chris Parker since I've never stepped one foot in a Ninjutsu dojo. They may very well be ninjutsu branch it still does not mean ninjutsu now teaches BJJ it means that branch does. I've trained in GOJU under IOGKF and Jundikan orgs. They are both similar but different. So does one speak for all Goju or just themselves?

 

[Spinedoc]

Profound, boring as fvck, but very deep and meaningful non the less.......

Not cool and exciting enough to shake a smile out of you huh? Meh, I tried.

No it made me smile. It was a good kick. But the point is, it didn't make me jump up and go "wow, I want to go study that". I smiled, and then that was it. The point is that many of us have been in lots of fights, some of us have been in military combat roles. The fact that many of us don't want to fight, don't need to fight, and don't require external validation of our martial arts style does not mean that we are lesser or greater. It simply is. I will never seek out a fight again. But that doesn't mean I'm weak (my patients always ask what college I played linebacker for, cause I'm 6'0" and 240 pounds and look like an NFL linebacker). If you attack me or my family you will find that out. Short of that, I intend and need to focus on repairing my own soul. My focus is on myself and what I can control around me, not what others think or want.

Peace,

Mike

 

[TFP]

No it made me smile. It was a good kick. But the point is, it didn't make me jump up and go "wow, I want to go study that". I smiled, and then that was it. The point is that many of us have been in lots of fights, some of us have been in military combat roles. The fact that many of us don't want to fight, don't need to fight, and don't require external validation of our martial arts style does not mean that we are lesser or greater. It simply is. I will never seek out a fight again. But that doesn't mean I'm weak (my patients always ask what college I played linebacker for, cause I'm 6'0" and 240 pounds and look like an NFL linebacker). If you attack me or my family you will find that out. Short of that, I intend and need to focus on repairing my own soul. My focus is on myself and what I can control around me, not what others think or want.

Peace,

Mike

All well and good, but the post clearly implied to set all that aside and enjoy a damn good move regardless of style or where it was applied.

you just imposed your hang ups and jaded outlook on it.

no big deal, just kinda sad.

 

[ballen0351]

All well and good, but the post clearly implied to set all that aside and enjoy a damn good move regardless of style or where it was applied.

you just imposed your hang ups and jaded outlook on it.

no big deal, just kinda sad.

Who made you the gate keeper of the arts?

 

[Xue Sheng]

If Kano didn't want Judo in the Olympics, it wouldn't be in the Olympics. Nor would the Olympic aspect of Judo have so much power and sway in the Judo world.

Lets see....Judo became an Olympic sport in 1964 and Kano died in 1938....sorry no...Kano had nothing to do with it becoming an Olympic sport nor did he develop it with the Olympics in mind. So I am pretty sure you are basing that on opinion, theory and conjecture all of which are not historically provable

However the historical fact is that Kano did develop Judo practiced for self-development, physical education and sport... but the Olympics never entered into it in his lifetime

 

[TFP]

Nobody, it was a fun jokingly way of saying no matter your art this is neat..........

 

[K-man]

I didn't say that he created Judo for that purpose, I said it was his goal (part of the reason he served on the olympic committee was to get Judo into the games). It's also why Judo became part of the Olympics.

:bs:
Unless Kano was a mind reader when he developed his style of jujutsu in 1882. He started his own competition in 1884. The modern Olympics started in 1896. He served on the Olympic Committee because of his expertise in developing and organising the highly regarded All Japan Judo Competition that began to attract competitors from all around the world. I know Kano was a man ahead of his time but ...

Don't just take my word that you are wrong ... here's Kano's response to you from beyond the grave;

I have been asked by people of various sections as to the wisdom and possibility of judo being introduced with other games and sports at the Olympic Games. My view on the matter, at present, is rather passive. If it be the desire of other member countries, I have no objection. But I do not feel inclined to take any initiative. For one thing, judo in reality is not a mere sport or game. I regard it as a principle of life, art and science. In fact, it is a means for personal cultural attainment. Only one of the forms of judo training, so-called randori or free practice can be classed as a form of sport. Certainly, to some extent, the same may be said of boxing and fencing, but today they are practiced and conducted as sports. Then the Olympic Games are so strongly flavored with nationalism that it is possible to be influenced by it and to develop "Contest Judo", a retrograde form as ju-jitsu was before the Kodokan was founded. Judo should be free as art and science from any external influences, political, national, racial, and financial or any other organized interest. And all things connected with it should be directed to its ultimate object, the "Benefit of Humanity". Human sacrifice is a matter of ancient history.

Thank you Kano Sensei for your contribution to this seemingly endless debate. :asian:

 

[K-man]

If Kano didn't want Judo in the Olympics, it wouldn't be in the Olympics. Nor would the Olympic aspect of Judo have so much power and sway in the Judo world.

:bs:
OMG! I hadn't got this far. Judo didn't make it to the Olympics 'til about 30 years after Kano's death.