dvcochran
Grandmaster
Sure it is. Why do you and others keep driving to find the answers to new questions that we do not yet understand?
For example, you are an enigma I doubt anyone will ever figure out.
Thoughts on the "what martial art should I take for self-defense" question
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For example, you are an enigma I doubt anyone will ever figure out.
jobo
Grandmaster
well no it doesn't, if your talking about the double slit experiment, that was high jacked by new age fruit cakes to make a statement that isnt intrinsic to the data.
the theory of entanglement doesn't require our consciousness for it to be true, the universe still works if we are in it or not, to believe our existence/ consciousness is required for quantum mechanics to work, is just man is at the centre of the universe nonsense slightly modified
clearly our perception of the universe doesn't exist with out us, but we have already agreed that our perception isnt real
_Simon_
Senior Master
Okay. If you say so.
I'm not talking about whether humans are in it. It doesn't have anything to do with humans. Consciousness is beyond that, and is not 'ours'. Yes that notion is for sure nonsense.
Yes. Perception. Again, consciousness is not perception. Different than what I'm talking about. Multiple times I've distinguished between our perception/beliefs and awareness/consciousness. I'm wondering why I bother with posting if you don't even read what I'm writing and choose to take it to mean something else constantly...
jobo
Grandmaster
there are only two question, which are how and why, every question answered just gives new questions to be answered, the how we are making good progress on, the why is an anthropomorphic, issue that we expect there to be a purpose to things other than they simply areSure it is. Why do you and others keep driving to find the answers to new questions that we do not yet understand?
For example, you are an enigma I doubt anyone will ever figure out.
jobo
Grandmaster
so, lets clarify,,,, you have decided with no evidence what so ever that there is a consciousness other than our own and a few other earth bound things ?
you claim that quantum mechanics supported this idea, but it doesn't, so what process of logic have you used to arrive at this idea,
im predicting you will say none, its just what you feel to be correct, that just happens to be the same conclusion as a few stone aged tribes came to and is contained in a few ancient scripts.
this appears to be a circular argument you are using, that your inner feeling are a better test of reality than science, or you believe in superstition because your superstitious
_Simon_
Senior Master
Wwwoooooow. I already said that this is hard to explain, and that standard evidence does not come into it and CANNOT come into it. Different domains. You'll most likely call it (and have called it) superstition, blind faith. I explained the difference already.
It's okay, I'm not asking you to accept it! Spend a few years studying and practicing Zen or something along those lines rather than just thinking about it all alot and you might get where I'm coming from, but of course, your methodology doesn't support that. Ie. Your pride is so deeply engrained you can't open to something other than your way of doing and seeing things.
Quantum mechanics does allude to consciousness but you've written it off already and called it being hijacked by new age folk. Makes sense.
Never said it was a 'better' test of reality. It's speaking to different domains or levels of reality. Again, I've mentioned this, but you're stuck now, so you're trying to 'catch me out', and of course win. As per usual.
It was a bit of a surprise for me to get a chance to get a chance to get a chance of anything being a smartass in a few weeks so I'm gonna get a little bit more settled with this tim throw of my own voice in this case of a job no matter how I performed.
Thought I'd try some auto-suggest words. To see if that does anything...
jobo
Grandmaster
what does '' allude mean in this context,
you've now diverged from claims about feelings to actually quoting science as supporting you
so where exactly does quantum mechanics allude to conscious,divine or other wise
im waiting with baited breath
dvcochran
Grandmaster
Are you talking to me? If so, I didn't twist your words. I pretty much quoted your words. If you think it was your use ofth phrase mother nature, boy do you not get it.
As I said before, I don't know what's in your heart. Only what you say. And you say some pretty messed up stuff. If you meant something else, please share it, instead of getting aggressive. Use your words.
If you're talking to someone else, the above still probably applies.
So there is no confusion, yes, I was talking directly to you Steve.
It this clear enough for you? See, I am using my words efficiently. It usually does not take a thesis to get a point across.
Why is what I said 'messed up'? It has led to a very interesting debate between Jobo and Simon that I have enjoyed following. All I did was plant the seed. Nothing else. Yet for some strange reason you took it personally and are trying to use it as a tool to attack me simply because you did not think before typing. Now you are trying to winnow your way out, again in a somewhat defaming manner.
C'mon man.
_Simon_
Senior Master
Allude to means to suggest. Not to outright prove or 100% supporting it.
The strange link between the human mind and quantum physics
No I couldn't be bothered finding the actual studies, but this is a good summary. There was also some other experiment, something to do with shooting two electrons directly at each other, and the resulting photons that split out had no spin, until one is observed then it spins. And at the same time it is observed, the other photon that went in the other direction spun at the exact same time, in the opposite direction. I've probably butchered that one, but something along those lines.
Of course, you'll probably decide to find holes. I can't give you what you so desperately want. This proof you're after is not something I can provide, how bloody could I?
All I'm saying is that spiritual enquiry relates to this consciousness. I'm not saying you're wrong. Different 'fields of study'. Science. Spirituality. Whatever!
jobo
Grandmaster
thats entanglement and the double split experiment, any two particles that have interacted go on to be effected by each other, its really weid, Einstein wasnt a fan of this idea, but it seems more and more likely its so
its the use of the term ''measurement'' or observed thats the issue, the same thing can be measured or observed by a computer, which i think we can agree has no consciousness
the other misnomer is that particles exist in a supper position of states until observed/measure., you can set up a camera to observe the world, it to see only one position,. its the act of '' measurement'' that this issue, not that the observer has consciousness
really they are still in a supper position of states we just cant see that otherwise the whole world would just be a fuzzy blur
jobo
Grandmaster
im not sure you read that beyond the title, as it doesn't to the most part agree with you
but there are two interesting takes on it in there
one penroses explanation which encapsulates what i said above
Beginning in the 1980s, the British physicist Roger Penrose suggested that the link might work in the other direction. Whether or not consciousness can affect quantum mechanics, he said, perhaps quantum mechanics is involved in consciousness.
and then the expansion of that, that our mind is a quantum computer, ie it uses super position of states and thats what gives us conscious
this isnt that far fetched, it now seems likely that if we are to develop AI that has consciousness, we will need to build quantum computers to do so QED
nb quantum computer are only a few decades away, as they are not binary, their potential to think is enormous, with the slight complication, that its impossible to encrypt anything that a quantum computer cant un encrypt, unless you use quantum encryption
the down side of giving computers consciousness, ie an ability to think beyond logic, is they may decided god exists and then decided that they are god, not an unfamiliar scenario with mankind
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Steve
Mostly Harmless
great scene.
Steve
Mostly Harmless
I haven't taken anything personally. You're projecting again. I was responding to your words. The ones that are bleak, fatalistic, and lead people to rationalize doing things that are very selfish, like not wearing masks in public.
What I think is noteworthy is that you do the very things you accuse others of doing. You get personal, directly attack others, are not accountable for your words, and when someone questions you, you demonstrate very little impulse control.
One again, your words paint a pretty bleak picture of a world in which we are selfish to try and stop the pandemic. You literally wrote this stuff. So, put on your big boy pants, demonstrate some impulse control and either explain what you meant. Or don't.
Regarding the rest, it sounds like you're upset with my vocabulary or writing style. That doesn't make a lot of sense to me because in my posts above, most of the words are yours.
Look, @dvcochran , I don't like you. I don't think you like me, either. So, when I respond to you, I try very hard to remain focused on your words. I explain what they mean to me but, as I have several times in this thread, I give you ample opportunity to elaborate. What I don't do is attack you. The very idea that I'm using your words to attack you, as you suggest, makes no sense. It's called disagreeing with you. Getting personal and attacking folks is your play book. You do it to me. I've seen you do it to others, too.
So, if you want to respond to me, great. But focus on the words and the maybe you and I can have a discussion. If I'm misinterpreting your words, which ones? Explain what you meant. I paraphrased your words, pretty much verbatim. Can you explain how they are not selfish in the way I describe above? What did you actually mean?
Steve
Mostly Harmless
I'm really glad you added that last line, because I could not figure out what you were trying to say!
_Simon_
Senior Master
Hahaha XD. It's actually hilarious just constantly pushing autosuggest and seeing what story it comes out with. It makes me laugh unreasonably a great deal.I'm really glad you added that last line, because I could not figure out what you were trying to say!
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