McDojo Pt. 2 -- Follow up Thoughts

[Dirty Dog]

I for one hate the term! It thrown around to loosely by to many people. If you do this you are a McDojo/McDojang.

I understand there is bad product out there! My son was a Poom belt at 8 and the vitriol that was thrown around was quite thick. A well known poster on this BBS said his instructor should be slapped.

It is almost 4 years latter and my sons has been in the Martial arts for 11 years total.

He is a 3rd Dan KKW ( had it transferred to Dan grade when he turned 15). He is also Shodan in Shotokan Karate.

Will test for 4th Dan KKW at 18 if his current development continues. He was a 3rd Poom before 13 so he is elgible at 18 for 4th.

Allot of people have questioned his credentials but never the people who know him as a Martial Artist! His work ethic and dedication are very high!

The word McDojo has been thrown in regards to my son because of his early development slash promotions. He has never attended a McDojang or McDojo!

I'm sure you will agree, however, that your son is the exception rather than the rule. He is an outstanding athlete with a very unusual dedication to the martial arts.

For contrast, I'll point out several "Black Belts" I've seen come to our Moo Duk Kwan school from others. Specifically, I'll mention one who came from a TKD school in Chicago. He was 12 or 13, and had been a 1st Dan for about a year. Our required forms are palgwae but a couple of us do train the taegeuks as well. He didn't know what forms he had learned. I asked him to show me one and he got about half way through taegeuk 1. He couldn't throw a proper punch. He didn't know the difference between a front stance and a back stance. He couldn't throw any kick other than a front snap kick with anything resembling proper technique. He sparred one our 9 or 10 year old yellow belts and quit after 30 seconds because it hurt (our lower belts do NOT spar with heavy contact, either).

This kid is far more the norm for "black belts" at his age, and based on him, I would consider the school that awarded him his rank a McDojang.

I'm not a fan of baby black belts in general, but I do believe that ages standards should be considered a guideline simply because there ARE exceptions.

 

[Gorilla]

Dirty dog
Started TKD 4-2002 started Tkd @ age 4

1st Poom 7-2005
2nd Poom 1-2007
3rd Poom 10-2010
3rd Dan. 12-2012
He was 4 when he started and will b 16 soon!

The 4 years later was referring to how long I have been posting on this BBS.


Sorry I was not clear.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Dirty dog

Started TKD 4-2002 started Tkd @ age 4

1st Poom 7-2005
2nd Poom 1-2007
3rd Poom 10-2010
3rd Dan. 12-2012

He was 4 when he started and will b 16 soon!

The 4 years later was referring to how long I have been posting on this BBS.

SorrynI was not clear.

I'm not the one who asked about the timeline. I merely pointed out that your son is far from the norm for Dan/Poom ranks.


But thanks anyway. There are always exceptions (which is why I prefer guidelines rather than rules).

 

[Steve]

Speaking just for myself, it's more a suggestion that many people use the term for any commercial successful school, implying that they must be making sacrifices as far quality.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Gorilla]

I'm not the one who asked about the timeline. I merely pointed out that your son is far from the norm for Dan/Poom ranks.


But thanks anyway. There are always exceptions (which is why I prefer guidelines rather than rules).

Sorry...I got confused. It was Chrispillertkd...

 

[chrispillertkd]

Speaking just for myself, it's more a suggestion that many people use the term for any commercial successful school, implying that they must be making sacrifices as far quality.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

I know many financially successful school that are in way McDojos. It's not a matter of being financially successful, it's a matter of being financially successful at the expense of producing quality students, IMNSHO.

That doesn't mean every blak belt produced at a non-McDojo is going to be able to walk on water. But it does mean the instructor will be more interested at producing studets who have a good understanding of the art they're teaching and who are physically skilled in general. A McDojo will, as a rule, have very low standards when it comes to both of those areas in order to be able to produce as many paying customers as possible. Quality schools, on the other hand, tend to attract students because of the high standards they have, albeit at a slower pace.

Pax,

Chris

 

[Twin Fist]

his is why people laugh at TKD....

Dirty dog
Started TKD 4-2002 started Tkd @ age 4

1st Poom 7-2005- THIS MAKES HIM A SEVEN YEAR OLD BB and a 2-3 yr bb at that.
2nd Poom 1-2007-NINE YEAR OLD 2ND BLACK
3rd Poom 10-2010- 12 YR OLD 3rd BLACK
3rd Dan. 12-2012
He was 4 when he started and will b 16 soon!

The 4 years later was referring to how long I have been posting on this BBS.
Sorry I was not clear.

SMH.....

3rd dan AND a shodan in shotokan?
i dont believe it
no wonder TKD is a laughing stock

 

[ralphmcpherson]

his is why people laugh at TKD....




SMH.....

3rd dan AND a shodan in shotokan?
i dont believe it
no wonder TKD is a laughing stock

I couldn't agree more, and I mean no disrespect to gorilla's son who I'm sure trains very hard and is very talented, but to me fourth dan at eighteen is just everything thats wrong with tkd rolled into one. I train with a guy who started at four and just got his sixth dan at 38 and I even have issues with that, but 18 I'm speechless. At 18 you are a child, first dan maybe, but fourth.....I can only shake my head in disbelief.

 

[Gorilla]

Ralph...who are you to make judgements...disappointing...

Twin Fist...Whatever! You never disappoint with your drivel! I posted that truth just to get a rise out of you!

 

[Tames D]

his is why people laugh at TKD....




SMH.....

3rd dan AND a shodan in shotokan?
i dont believe it
no wonder TKD is a laughing stock

Gotta love them TKD fanboys.

 

[msmitht]

Check kkw requirements. Believe you must be 21 for 4th dan. Even that is young. Imagine A 4th dan at age 18 issuing certificates. Totally laughable.

 

[ralphmcpherson]

Ralph...who are you to make judgements...disappointing...

Twin Fist...Whatever! You never disappoint with your drivel! I posted that truth just to get a rise out of you!

Its not a judgement, its my opinion. The whole concept of a forum is for people to voice their opinions. In my "opinion" an 18 year old 4th dan in anything makes no sense, and I can assure you I am far from alone on this one. The wider martial arts community regularly questions such young people with high rank. I just hope for the sake of the kkw's credibility that the post above me is correct in that you must be 21 to obtain fouth dan. Still way to young in my opinion, but not as ridiculous as 18.

 

[ralphmcpherson]

Check kkw requirements. Believe you must be 21 for 4th dan. Even that is young. Imagine A 4th dan at age 18 issuing certificates. Totally laughable.

That would be funny. Heading down the dojang to issue certificates yet you had to ask mum for a lift because you dont have a drivers license yet. And too young to have a celebratory drink with the guy you just promoted. I really hope you're right and it is 21.

 

[granfire]

his is why people laugh at TKD....




SMH.....

3rd dan AND a shodan in shotokan?
i dont believe it
no wonder TKD is a laughing stock

I couldn't agree more, and I mean no disrespect to gorilla's son who I'm sure trains very hard and is very talented, but to me fourth dan at eighteen is just everything thats wrong with tkd rolled into one. I train with a guy who started at four and just got his sixth dan at 38 and I even have issues with that, but 18 I'm speechless. At 18 you are a child, first dan maybe, but fourth.....I can only shake my head in disbelief.

Check kkw requirements. Believe you must be 21 for 4th dan. Even that is young. Imagine A 4th dan at age 18 issuing certificates. Totally laughable.

Its not a judgement, its my opinion. The whole concept of a forum is for people to voice their opinions. In my "opinion" an 18 year old 4th dan in anything makes no sense, and I can assure you I am far from alone on this one. The wider martial arts community regularly questions such young people with high rank. I just hope for the sake of the kkw's credibility that the post above me is correct in that you must be 21 to obtain fouth dan. Still way to young in my opinion, but not as ridiculous as 18.

That would be funny. Heading down the dojang to issue certificates yet you had to ask mum for a lift because you dont have a drivers license yet. And too young to have a celebratory drink with the guy you just promoted. I really hope you're right and it is 21.

yep, up to par.

The not so pretty side of the discussion.

FWIW, we allow kids of this age to cary guns, to enlist in the armed forces...
but they are too young to 'issue certificates'


How come practitioners of the Art fall for the BB myth?

As much as I generally respect each of you, this is not one of the reasons.

 

[ralphmcpherson]

So if I understand this correctly, 18 for fourth dan would mean 22 at fifth dan and 27 you could be sixth dan? Wow, just wow.

 

[Twin Fist]

see? this is exactly what i mean, i am sure the kid is a tough little fighter, but he is not and cannot be worthy of that rank at that age. the emotional maturity required of that rank is simply not going to be there in a baby.

seven year old bb? thats horse crap

this situation is everything that is wrong with modern tkd. to put it simply : olympic style

its crap from start to finish

I couldn't agree more, and I mean no disrespect to gorilla's son who I'm sure trains very hard and is very talented, but to me fourth dan at eighteen is just everything thats wrong with tkd rolled into one. I train with a guy who started at four and just got his sixth dan at 38 and I even have issues with that, but 18 I'm speechless. At 18 you are a child, first dan maybe, but fourth.....I can only shake my head in disbelief.

 

[Twin Fist]

Ralph...who are you to make judgements...disappointing...

he is an adult BB with a LOT of training

like me. Niether of us are parents living vicariously through our kids and believing anything a so called instructor tells us while waiting for us to write another check......

 

[Twin Fist]

sorry gran, someone has to the bag guy who tells the unpopular truth

the truth is that child BB's are a joke and this situation gorilla describes is a travesty. regardless of his son's actual ability, he CANNOT be emotionally ready for BB rank, it isnt possible in a pre-teen

you get that? it just isnt possible

someone has to be willing to call bs on this crap

 

[Cyriacus]

Im hesitant to say anything, because i dont want to pick on a kid. So, ill scoot around the edge of the discussion and say that what criteria you place on being a black belt will vary from place to place.

 

[ralphmcpherson]

people are waking up to this too. As Ive mentioned previously I am currently crosstraining in shotokan. One of the first things I noticed was a few white belt kids in the class wearing uniforms with a tkd patch from the tkd school which runs out of the same hall. Being a tkdist myself I eventually asked the parents why their kids are in a tkd uniform. They told me that their kids started in the tkd class but "the number of young kids wearing black belts sent alarm bells, in fact there was an eleven year old second dan", they told me. One parent even commented that kids shouldnt get black belts. I think the general community is starting to question kids in black belts and the shotokan school Im training at is starting to profit out of it.