Then I would ask him why he isn't disclosing it.Right, but in the scenarios being discussed, the instructor is refusing to disclose that. So now what?
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Then I would ask him why he isn't disclosing it.Right, but in the scenarios being discussed, the instructor is refusing to disclose that. So now what?
That depends on whatever system the instructor has for rank advancement. Every instructor has their own system, but with tests the very purpose of tests is to see if the student is ready to promote. So with tests, that's how the instructor, and the student, knows whether or not the student is ready to promote, depending on if they pass or fail the test.Business or not, you don't put people into the test if they aren't ready, unless there's a good lesson they can learn from it.
Incorrect.That depends on whatever system the instructor has for rank advancement. Every instructor has their own system, but with tests the very purpose of tests is to see if the student is ready to promote. So with tests, that's how the instructor, and the student, knows whether or not the student is ready to promote, depending on if they pass or fail the test.
No second chances with you? You can't think of any circumstance that would lead to a decision to fail a group?In that case I would kick them out, failing wouldn't be the primary concern.
As I said before every instructor has their own system so it would be inaccurate to say that every instructor functions exactly as you claim but if an instructor knows a student is ready to promote there is no need to test the student, the instructor can just promote the student without testing them if the instructor knows the student is ready to promote.Incorrect.
The test is not how an instructor knows a student is ready to promote. If a student is testing, the instructor should have already done plenty of due diligence to make sure they are ready to promote. From the instructors perspective, at this point the test is a formality.
That's not to say failure isn't possible. But it shouldn't be the norm.
If your instructor is waiting until testing day to find out if you're ready, that's a bad instructor.
What you say is technically true but functionally incorrect. If the failure rate is 0.5%, then it's not really about testing to see if the student is ready to test. If 99.5% pass, then generally speaking students are ready to test.As I said before every instructor has their own system so it would be inaccurate to say that every instructor functions exactly as you claim but if an instructor knows a student is ready to promote there is no need to test the student, the instructor can just promote the student without testing them if the instructor knows the student is ready to promote.
If a test is done just as a formality or done so a student can show off what they've learned then it isn't really a test it's a demonstration. For it to be a test there has to be the possibility of failure. If failure is possible, even if it isn't the norm but if it happens at all, that means the instructor doesn't 100% know that a student is ready to promote.
If all tests were meant to. be passed that means that everybody in school, or at least the vast vast majority of students, 95.5% as you put it, would be straight A students or at least would never fail any classes. From my experience back in the days when I was still in school I certainly know that 95.5% of all students did not get straight As and there were students who failed tests and who even failed classes and that the failure rate was greater than 0.5%.What you say is technically true but functionally incorrect. If the failure rate is 0.5%, then it's not really about testing to see if the student is ready to test. If 99.5% pass, then generally speaking students are ready to test.
It's like saying that dogs have 4 legs. Technically some have 3, or 2, or maybe less. Maybe some have 5 or more due to some mutation. But generally speaking, the vast majority of dogs have 4 legs, and they were [designed|evolved] to have 4 legs. Tests are designed to be passed. Failures are outliers.
In regards to whether or not students are ready for formal testing you've got to define what it means for a student to be ready for formal testing. Based on your posts, I would conclude that you consider a student who has a 95.5% chance of passing as being ready to test but that is just your definition, not the definition of all instructors. Other instructors might have different definitions of what it means to be ready to formally test. Some of the people on this forum give the impression that they think all instructors have the exact same system. I've said it before and I'll say it again, every instructor has their own system on how students go up in rank and many instructors have systems that are very different than systems that many other instructors have. Such systems vary, a lot.That holds true at the instructor level. By and large, this is how martial arts with tests do things. Some arts don't have belts (i.e. boxing), some have belts but generally not tests (i.e. BJJ), but those are out of scope. Even BJJ gyms that have tests follow this method: the true test is if you're ready for the formal testing.
There are so many things wrong with this sentence alone.If all tests were meant to. be passed that means that everybody in school, or at least the vast vast majority of students, 95.5% as you put it, would be straight A students or at least would never fail any classes.
Agree. A little off topic from the OP, but especially at the BB level, the person should be reasonably vetted before testing. But the testing environment can rattle some people enough to still fail or at least do poorly. This in itself has good value if approached the right way.Why was he testing them if they werenāt ready? IMHO a person taking a black belt treat should have been prepared and evaluated by the instructor and only if they were truly ready should they be subjected to the test.
Obviously martial arts tests are different than academic tests but if you had read the rest of my post you would see that I specifically do address martial arts tests, after my first paragraph.There are so many things wrong with this sentence alone.
- As I said on post #41, there's a difference between tests in school and tests in martial arts. Tests in school are usually done on pace (i.e. if you're in a fall class, midterms will be in the first week of November for everyone). Tests in martial arts are usually done when you're ready.
- There are many grades that aren't A's but are passing. D is a passing grade. I think for most people, C or above is fine, and they want to avoid Ds and Fs. A lot of folks are A/B students.
- Even for those that get Fs on assignments or tests, you can still pass a class, as long as you have enough non-F grades weighted such that you can get a D in the class.
- In school, if a lot of students are failing, it's generally blamed on the teacher. Either they're not doing a good job of teaching, or their assessments are too difficult for the class. Either way, it's usually the teacher's fault if students are routinely unprepared.
So you didn't read my entire post. Then I will repost the rest of what I said in post #87 here and we can forget what I said about academic tests.You started off on such a bad foot that I didn't even bother reading the rest of the post.
In regards to whether or not students are ready for formal testing you've got to define what it means for a student to be ready for formal testing. Based on your posts, I would conclude that you consider a student who has a 95.5% chance of passing as being ready to test but that is just your definition, not the definition of all instructors. Other instructors might have different definitions of what it means to be ready to formally test. Some of the people on this forum give the impression that they think all instructors have the exact same system. I've said it before and I'll say it again, every instructor has their own system on how students go up in rank and many instructors have systems that are very different than systems that many other instructors have. Such systems vary, a lot.That holds true at the instructor level. By and large, this is how martial arts with tests do things. Some arts don't have belts (i.e. boxing), some have belts but generally not tests (i.e. BJJ), but those are out of scope. Even BJJ gyms that have tests follow this method: the true test is if you're ready for the formal testing.
The major difference between tests in school and tests in martial arts is you don't know what questions are going to be on the school tests (unless you find a way to steal it from your teacher's desk). In martial arts, you know exactly what "questions" (i.e., what you will be required to demonstrate) will be on every exam up to the highest technical dan grade
Not necessarily. In martial arts tests, from my experience, you can be tested on anything that's been covered in your training sessions up to the rank you're testing for, but you don't know beforehand exactly what you'll be tested on.Because of this, you have far less excuses for failing a test in martial arts than in school.
Some dojos give you a refund if you fail, and some dojos don't even charge a testing fee.Any dojo that allows all students to test, regardless of whether or not the instructor has assessed that they are likely to pass or fail, is one that I'd steer clear of. That just means they're only interested in collecting test fees.
I've only seen it two ways:Not necessarily. In martial arts tests, from my experience, you can be tested on anything that's been covered in your training sessions up to the rank you're testing for, but you don't know beforehand exactly what you'll be tested on.
Sure, of all the dojos that exist, there has to be at least one that refunds to the fees to those who fail. Do I think they're numerous enough to be worth mentioning? Hardly.Some dojos give you a refund if you fail, and some dojos don't even charge a testing fee.
Yeah, but by black belt you should also have enough tests to be desensitized to those nerves, or at least know how to push through it.Agree. A little off topic from the OP, but especially at the BB level, the person should be reasonably vetted before testing. But the testing environment can rattle some people enough to still fail or at least do poorly. This in itself has good value if approached the right way.
To the OP, does an instructor have the 'right' to fail everyone? I suppose, but much, much more would have to be known/explained to support such a move. More often statements like that are just posturing.
Yes, but it still happens. Some people have really, really bad stage fright in certain conditions.Yeah, but by black belt you should also have enough tests to be desensitized to those nerves, or at least know how to push through it.
I understand this well. One thing I do when I am either speaking or performing in front of a group of people is to completely block them out. I go into my zone, focus and do what I have to do. The room around me gets darker and I forget people are with me.Yes, but it still happens. Some people have really, really bad stage fright in certain conditions.
I am weird about it. In a competition environment, I seldom get rattled. Talking to a room full of engineering nerds I am completely comfortable. Put me in front of a bunch and Master instructors and GM's and I still get a little nervous.
Do you at least know how to push through it?Yes, but it still happens. Some people have really, really bad stage fright in certain conditions.
I am weird about it. In a competition environment, I seldom get rattled. Talking to a room full of engineering nerds I am completely comfortable. Put me in front of a bunch and Master instructors and GM's and I still get a little nervous.
That's an interesting take.Whenever I tested for a belt, I always imagined that instead of being there to evaluate me, the examiners were attending a seminar I was giving. They were there to LEARN from ME. Put me in a position of confidence right away, and once I got started, momentum carried me through to the end. It's worked pretty well!