Wearing your BB from one art to the dojo of a different one?

[Bruno@MT]

I was wondering though, Is it right to wear a BB from one type of MA that you earned, to another dojo and a completely different MA with a different association where you are a white belt?

Not my place to decide, I was wondering, therefore, what you think about it? What would you do? should he have worn his BB? Is it right?

No it is not allright to wear a BB in a class for which you don't hold that rank, imo. If you are a 6th dan in ninpo and you start TKD, you wear the white because that represents your TKD knowledge: zip, nada, zilch. It is alright to wear whatever you earned in your primary art in certain settings like MA seminars etc. But as a student in a class, you wear whatever you earned in that art.

If you want to wear black in a shotokan class, then you had better earn that. If that is too much to ask, your ego is getting in the way of learning. If you wear any belt in a system, you should understand and be able to explain to lower ranks everything that goes with the belt.

 

[Twin Fist]

see, i disagree with Joe here, and I'll tell you why.

you come into my school, strap on a white belt, and you are already a BB? I am gonna SEE your BB level of skill regardless of what you are wearing.

and if you strap on a white belt? it can look like you are trying to sand bag...

So i tell people to wear thier belts. If they JOIN my class, they can rank down.

so what I used to do was when visiting, wear my belt, and if i joined that school, i did what they wanted. It has been 50/50, some wanted me to wear thier white belt, and i did, some wanted me to wear MY belt, so everyone knew i was a BB, and just told them i am not a Dan in thier style.

I think, unless the instructor tells you to wear your belt, you don't wear it. I would not walk into a kenpo school and put my BB on, I would tell the the instructor of prior experience and let him decide.
To just wear your BB to another school of a different system does two things, 1) shows disrespect, and 2) makes the other BB's in that school want to see how good you really are. At least that's how it works in Kaju

 

[just2kicku]

see, i disagree with Joe here, and I'll tell you why.

you come into my school, strap on a white belt, and you are already a BB? I am gonna SEE your BB level of skill regardless of what you are wearing.

and if you strap on a white belt? it can look like you are trying to sand bag...

So i tell people to wear thier belts. If they JOIN my class, they can rank down.

so what I used to do was when visiting, wear my belt, and if i joined that school, i did what they wanted. It has been 50/50, some wanted me to wear thier white belt, and i did, some wanted me to wear MY belt, so everyone knew i was a BB, and just told them i am not a Dan in thier style.

I agree with this John, I'm saying that I would not ask to join in on a class and just show up in my BB. I would have told you prior to this and you would have told me what to wear. My point is to not go into someone elses house without first getting the approval of the instructor. Without prior approval, to me, it shows some cockiness.

 

[Twin Fist]

you absolutely right about that

 

[Jenny_in_Chico]

Along these lines, ladies and gentlemen, what is your opinion regarding the wearing of one's gi/belt at a seminar in another art being held in your own dojo?

This issue is relevant because I'm a yellow belt in kenpo, with no training at all in FMA. My kenpo sensei holds high rank in FMA, and is hosting a visiting FMA artist who will hold an all-day seminar at our dojo. I will be participating, and honestly before I read this thread it never occurred to be that I would not wear my gi and yellow belt.

What are y'alls thoughts?

 

[searcher]

I've said it before, but it is worth repeating.

I have had the opportunity to train and attain arnk in several different styles. Before I show up at the school, I let the instructor know of my previous training and rank. I discuss with them how they want me to procede if I choose to train with them. No matter what gets decided, I have always chosen to take off my BB and put on a white belt. I prefer to not have any outward symbols on my being(outside of technique) that will identify me as a BB.



I am there to train, not to show off my cotton.

 

[IcemanSK]

Along these lines, ladies and gentlemen, what is your opinion regarding the wearing of one's gi/belt at a seminar in another art being held in your own dojo?

This issue is relevant because I'm a yellow belt in kenpo, with no training at all in FMA. My kenpo sensei holds high rank in FMA, and is hosting a visiting FMA artist who will hold an all-day seminar at our dojo. I will be participating, and honestly before I read this thread it never occurred to be that I would not wear my gi and yellow belt.

What are y'alls thoughts?

In the case you've mentioned here Jenny, simply ask your sensei. He is holding the seminar. His opinion is the only one that matters.

 

[IcemanSK]

I had a question. Some weeks ago, a dude I'll call Brian, came to try some shotokan. Bryan is a completely new to shotokan - didnt know blocks, punch, even any kata. Like all new students, he needs to be taught. However, he has a BB from a different type of Karate. On his first night, he wore his white gi and his BB to our class and dojo. I did comment on it......cause i'd never seen it before....a person completely new to shotokan who wears his BB from a completely different MA. still karate, but its different. (not kenpo though. I'd remember what it was if it was kenpo.) actually in shotokan he's a white belt. he did see that I had a point. And he's a really good, friendly, nice guy. =] I didn't say much....decided, rightfully, we both did, to let my senseis decide what to do with him as i trust them completely and I always defer to them on everything. They're in charge. to let him wear his BB or to bump him to white belt. I never said anything about it after. Its not our place.

I was wondering though, Is it right to wear a BB from one type of MA that you earned, to another dojo and a completely different MA with a different association where you are a white belt?

Not my place to decide, I was wondering, therefore, what you think about it? What would you do? should he have worn his BB? Is it right?

Here is what I've done & what I would suggest. I'd speak to the sensei at the new school & tell him/her my background. I'd fully expect to wear a white belt in an Art I hadn't studied. If the sensei tells me, "no, I'd rather you wear a BB," that's what I'd do.

A few years ago, I struck up a conversation with a Karate Shihan in his 60's who taught at the community center where I worked. I told him I was a TKD 2nd Dan. He said to me "would you come teach my students how to kick? I can teach them hand techniques all day long, but I could use some help with kicks." A week later, I was teaching his students how to kick...wearing a BB. While he was (& is) quite kind to me, I always took a back seat when he taught his students. I was there to help with one thing...kicks.

 

[Jenny_in_Chico]

In the case you've mentioned here Jenny, simply ask your sensei. He is holding the seminar. His opinion is the only one that matters.

Oh, I will...I was just curious as to what everyone's first instincts would be.

 

[dbell]

Along these lines, ladies and gentlemen, what is your opinion regarding the wearing of one's gi/belt at a seminar in another art being held in your own dojo?

This issue is relevant because I'm a yellow belt in kenpo, with no training at all in FMA. My kenpo sensei holds high rank in FMA, and is hosting a visiting FMA artist who will hold an all-day seminar at our dojo. I will be participating, and honestly before I read this thread it never occurred to be that I would not wear my gi and yellow belt.

What are y'alls thoughts?

It would be up to your Instructor, but I would say wear your belt... It is a seminar and normally you wear your primary style's belt to those, unless you are belted in that style too.

 

[Xinglu]

For me, I always prefer to strap on a white-belt. But it is up to the instructor and what their wishes are. You can never go wrong talking it over.

Rank is really subjective. Perhaps this guy WAS a BB at his dojo... his lack in skill might be a testament to either the quality of your instruction at your school, or the lack of quality at his school. Maybe both? Who knows.

 

[Grenadier]

Ask the sensei in charge of the class. That makes it easier for everyone.

My policy is this: if you're a guest yudansha, who's just coming in to train for a class or three, then by all means, feel free to wear your rank. You're my guest, and there as an associate, not as a subordinate student.

If you enroll as a student, then I'll need to check your background out a bit. If, for example, you came from another dojo that's associated with our system, then you'll be expected to wear your ranking. To demote yourself when you've already earned a legitimate ranking in our system, isn't appropriate, unless you misplaced your old belt. In those cases, I do have a couple of spare black belts I can loan you.

If you are a yudansha who came from a closely related system, then I'd let you wear a brown belt as an informal ranking, and let you train, with the understanding that you would most likely be fast tracked to test for shodan as your first exam.

If you are a yudansha who came from a significantly different system, then you start out as a white belt, but would understand that because of your extensive background, you would probably be testing at a faster rate, assuming that your trainng came from a decent dojo / dojang. I wouldn't have any qualms about letting you skip ranks, as long as you can demonstrate the appropriate proficiencies.

Again, this is simply what I prefer to set as precedent. As long as you aren't my student or guest, you're very much free to accept or disregard this.

 

[myusername]

My humble opinion on this is that it is not necessarily automatically "disrespectful" as has been suggested by a few. I would argue that the deliberate intent to be disrespectful has to be there for it it to be truly an act of disrespect. If the intent isn't there then it is plain ignorance not disrespect.

If the instructor or other students feel offended by the new students ignorance then that is their choice to feel that way but they should own that as their own choice and recognise that the new student isn't responsible for their feelings. Some people just like feeling offended.

Personally, I would never ever just turn up wearing a belt earned in another system even if I was just visiting. It would be Dobok trousers and a t-shirt. My fear would be that I may be viewed as arrogant. If I was joining that class then I would let the instructor know of prior experience but only if asked or if it came up in conversation.

As for Twinfists thoughts on "sandbagging" that would never have even occured to me! Therefore, if joining Twinfist's class my decision not to wear my belt and fear of seeming cocky may have result in inadvertant offence. This would have been down to my ignorance rather than a deliberate act of disrespect.

So much of this dojo etiquette varies from dojo to dojo and seems purely on the whim of individual instructors. I personally think it is a tad unfair to presume that a visiting student will know the etiquette of a specific dojo/dojang and a bit precious to be offended by such slips. Not all people will have the awareness that etiquette varies from place to place and if they are young and have only previously trained in one system/organistion they may not have the foresight to ring and check.

 

[jks9199]

My humble opinion on this is that it is not necessarily automatically "disrespectful" as has been suggested by a few. I would argue that the deliberate intent to be disrespectful has to be there for it it to be truly an act of disrespect. If the intent isn't there then it is plain ignorance not disrespect.

...


So much of this dojo etiquette varies from dojo to dojo and seems purely on the whim of individual instructors. I personally think it is a tad unfair to presume that a visiting student will know the etiquette of a specific dojo/dojang and a bit precious to be offended by such slips. Not all people will have the awareness that etiquette varies from place to place and if they are young and have only previously trained in one system/organistion they may not have the foresight to ring and check.

It certainly is variable... And a lot of the confusion comes from people trying to imitate or respect poorly understood customs from another culture -- and even jumble elements from a couple of cultures together! Just keeping to some of the more common arts around, Korean culture isn't the same as Japanese, so that when a TKD practitioner decides to visit a Shotokan dojo (or vice versa), you have multiple clashes. Also, lots of people who introduced the martial arts to the US came from the military, and brought some of that military culture and mindset to the training hall...

The bottom line is that you can get away with being "cluelessly respectful." If you're visiting, get there with enough time to introduce yourself and ask what they'd like you to do; it's easy enough to make sure you've got a simple pair of gi pants or sweats and a t-shirt rather than a full uniform with you. At seminars and the like, look around when you get there; you'll be able to tell if the majority of the people are in full uniform or what. If you're joining a new style as a student... plan to start out with a white belt. If they want you to wear a different belt, they'll let you know!

(By the way, when I'm at a seminar or even just a tournament, I always assume that people around me are higher ranked if it's not obvious... It's easy to be respectful, and hard to make up for showing disrespect!)

 

[Kittan Bachika]

You would have to ask yourself a couple of questions.

What is your relationship with the teacher of the school? Are you pals with the teacher or did one of their students invite you? If you are friends with the teacher, they might cut you some slack. If a teacher's student invited you, it might not be a bad idea to talk to the teacher first before a class about what to wear.

Are you there for a seminar, trying out a class or is this something more permanent?

If it is a seminar, there will be probably a bunch of other martial arts decked out in their black belts too. Now if you plan on studying the style, as courtesy to the school, it would not hurt to put the black belt away since you did not earn it in that style. Even if it is similar to what you have studied before. Also if you have a good teacher that recognizes your skill level, they might just bring you up the ladder. Then again it is at their discretion.

Honestly, if I were starting up at a new school, I would don the white belt. It is best to be overly humble than to be arrogant.