Punching - being a bit off topic I would suggest that the main reason, besides being able to punch very hard, boxers break their hands punching to the head is because the gloves they are so used to wearing do not allow them to clench their fists fully and the hand/wrist wraps take away much of the reliance on wrist strength on correct wrist alignment. If you punch someone in the forehead then you are likely to break your hand, punching to the jaw is less risky and conditioning the fist can reduce the risks considerably. Palm strikes have their own dangers such as spraining or breaking your wrist if you get the angle wrong even when hitting something soft.
I'm less convinced of the "can't close their hands properly" reasoning... but I'll come to that in a moment. I would agree with the idea of punching the head being a major cause, though... in very simple terms, it's big (thick, hard) bones (forehead) versus little bones... big bones win. The only viable targets for a closed fist on the head I'd aim for are the jaw (which moves) and the nose (which moves... when it breaks). Spraining happens if the wrist is taken past it's flexibility point... so that's more an indication that the point of impact is closer to the fingers than the base of the palm, rather than being a flaw of the palm strike itself. Breaking your wrist is more about a poor alignment (which is why wrists get broken in falls).
Not so, Chris. Palm strikes result in fractures, most commonly to the navicula and ulna, especially ulnar stylet fractures. I can't say what the relative odds of a fracture are, primarily because of a lack of studies. But these are not at all uncommon injuries.
Are those injuries from palm strikes, though? Fractured/broken wrists, from the discussions I've had with various doctors/surgeons/nurses, are more often from falls than anything else... the hands reach out to stop the fall, extending the wrist, which puts all of the force into it, not allowing any support (or cushioning of the impact), which is what breaks it. A palm strike, if done properly, allows for the impact to travel down the length of the forearm, cushioning and reducing the strain on the wrist a fair bit, and reducing the chance of injury, particularly breaks or fracturing.
The gloves worn by boxers prevent closing the hand, and reduce (nearly eliminate?) the need for proper hand/wrist/forearm alignment. When a boxer punches something without a glove, this would lead to injuries. Considering that the classic "boxers fracture" is a fracture of the 4th of 5th metacarpal and that this fracture is virtually always the result of improper alignment during the strike, I think there is little to debate.
And of course, boxers don't generally (so far as I know) condition the hands in the way most of us do.
See, now, this I disagree with. Boxers don't always use gloves... a lot of the time, bag work might be done with just wraps, as is shadow boxing (a way of working on form, as well as other aspects). And, in that instance, proper alignment is absolutely needed, and drilled. Additionally, proper wrist alignment is needed when wearing gloves as well... I'd even suggest it becomes more important there, as the added weight and bulk of the gloves don't help with the force being transferred into the wrist.... and it's that force that would injure the wrist. Realistically, the wrist is just as susceptible to injury in a punch as a palm strike, as the force being transferred into it is pretty well equal. And that's not where the punching breaks happen. I'd also seriously question the idea that boxers don't condition their hands to strike... it's one of the main reasons for bag work!
When it comes to the classic "boxer's fracture", it is a break of, as you said, the fourth or fifth metacarpal (the ring and little fingers, respectively). The improper alignment there isn't really about the wrist, it's that you hit "late", and the force is applied to the later part of your hand (leading with the index or middle finger knuckles). It is more common to break your hand that way by slightly missing with the lead knuckles, and "clipping" (with some force!) the latter knuckles. The facts that these metacarpals aren't as supported, are thinner, and don't allow the force to continue to travel down the forearm, all combine to result in a broken hand. And, really, the most common cause is striking something hard (such as the head/skull) with those later knuckles.
My boxing coach taught us the 90 degree angle hook. To shallow and it has less power, to wide and you have less power(lol) and risk injury to your self. Im surprised that this discussion of hooks did not turn into a argument over palms facing vs palms down. Im a palms facing hooker.
I have tried the Palm hook, and abandon the idea. I just could not find a good orientation for my hand that did not leave my fingers in the way or some how exposed to dangers. I may revist the idea again.
I'll give you some of my approaches for your palm hook. Firstly, the impact is always done with the bottom of your palm, where it is supported by your wrist and forearm (directly). When it comes to positioning of the fingers, if the opponent is slightly further away, then I point them forwards... if at a "middle" range, they point up... and, if close in, they point back towards myself. The vast majority of the time, it's the first one (pointed away). My most common target, also, is the jaw line... as it's a very good chance for a knockout. My personal targeting is to strike by positioning the opponents ear between my thumb and forefinger... this means my palm impacts about halfway along the jawline. Using a direct angle straight in (90 degrees to the jaw), it is an incredibly powerful strike... as well as being a large target, making it very simple to use in a "gross motor" fashion, making it usable in an adrenalized state (as a fight/self defence situation is). There's a lot more to it than this, such as the way we utilize bodyweight in our striking methods, and other reasons to prefer that particular targeting, but that's enough of a clue for now, I feel...
Alrighty, back to this.
Speed wise and power wise, i dont see any difference. However, i find it works on a bit of a tighter arc. At least according to the person i was with, it wasnt quite as easy to stop from hitting you. I didnt notice all that much (from a receivers viewpoint), however i can see how that might happen.
Speed wise, against a punch, well, it's basically the same action, so yeah, they're the same. Power wise, the difference is primarily psychological... due to the reduced risk of injuring yourself, it's common to put more behind a palm strike than a punch. To test that, go up to a brick wall, and punch it as hard as you dare... then strike with your palm as hard as you dare. I guarantee that you'll let yourself hit a lot harder with the palm... As far as the angle, again, they can be identical... but I find the palm can be slightly tighter, due to the larger impact point. The focus of the fist means that you need to get the angle that much more correct, so your approach is a little more limited.
Range (ala hand position) isnt as much of a factor as i took it for, since bending the elbow to shorten your reach as needed realigns your fingers all on its own anyway, so i was wrong about that. In my head, against air, and against a post, it came out like seperate movements. With a more ball shaped mark (head) the adjustment was purely in the elbow, same as a hook punch.
You're better off rotating your hand, rather than bending the elbow away from 90 degrees... you're sacrificing power, as well as alignment, for convenience.
I stand by the chance of hitting with the bottom of the metacarpals, albeit thats like saying you can hit with your fingers off a punch. That doesnt exactly change anything, though the knuckles do protrude more consistently than the heel of the palm.
You want to hit with the base of the palm, not the center of it. That's where the support is, that's where the stability is, that's where the transfer of power is... further up (towards the fingers) is less stable, less powerful, less safe.
The main thing im going to bring up is that with some contact, hook punches tend to rotate the head. With the palm hooks i was fiddling with, presumably due to the shape of the hand, hitting anything other than the jaw seems to move the entire head and neck sideways, which presented some interesting continuations, and to me didnt quite feel as nice to receive (which i assume is either due to not being used to it, or from your neck not liking it).
Hit towards, not across... makes a world of difference.
So, my prior judgement was harsh. Consider my standpoint revised, to not judge things based on old information.
Cool.
So, I agree with pretty much everything Chris has said but will say that kicking does have a role in self defense training. However, the only really training you'd need is to practice crushing cans with a stomp as that would be the most effective way to kick someone who is actively attacking you. With training I could certainly see one being able to use kicking methods effectively but in a limited setting, so I'd agree with Dirty Dog there.
For practicing such stomps, make sure you exaggerate the action as much as you can....
