Inexperienced in hard sparring

[jayoliver00]

When you spar to win, you will only use your best skill set. You aren't going to spar with your worst skill sets because that defeats the goal of winning.
Even if you are scoring by punches and kicks. For me to use something that will almost guarantee that I'll be hit, therefore giving you a point, works against me trying to win. And I'm definitely not going to spar at 80% and try to land a new technique that I barely know how to use. If I'm trying to win, then I'm trying to use skill sets that I have a high level of capability. You come with you A-game to win not your F-Game

Sure I do, and quite often. In light sparring, I use a bunch of ninja moves to try them out; while still trying to win. And I learn a lot.

From what I see in BJJ training. My guess is that they set up a bunch of mini goals Roll for longer times, Be submitted less, Escape more. Land more successful techniques. Screw up less. I would be shocked if rolling is only about winning.

It's not only about winning, but people do keep score and do want to win. And it's almost always 80-100% as it's only grappling.

 

[JowGaWolf]

And it's almost always 80-100% as it's only grappling.

This I can understand as it's easier to do 80- 100% with grappling than to do the same with striking. I do striking and grappling, but the grappling doesn't last long enough to ramp up to 100% . For me it's usually just enough to get the result that I want.

 

[_Simon_]

I cannot win with the guitar until I learn how to play and use chess techniques

Ahh.. iiiiiii bloody KNEW IT! Finally I know their secret... be back gotta practice...

 

[JowGaWolf]

Ahh.. iiiiiii bloody KNEW IT! Finally I know their secret... be back gotta practice...

ha ha ha. yeah it was just one of those days

 

[Oily Dragon]

Not trying to start an argument. Just trying to give you some insight on what I'm thinking when I use the term "Learning" and how I see "Learning."

The way I train and teach is like playing chess. Here's an example. "When you practice chess to win a competition, your trying to learn to win a chess competition so you need to have a winning mindset. " But if you can't do any of that until you learn how to successfully execute chess techniques. If you never spend time to learn how to use and get the most out of moving the knight, the bishop, the rook the pawn the queen and the king. Then how can you win, when you lack those skills?

I don't need to learn Kung Fu in order to win a fight. But I do need to learn kung fu in order to win a fight by using kung fu. I cannot win with kung fu until I learn how to use kung fu. If I just want to win a competition or a fight then I can easily choose other ways. This is why kung fu competitions and a lot of sparring never often never look like kung fu. they train.

I cannot win with the guitar until I learn how to play and use chess techniques
I cannot win with the piano until I learn how to play and use piano techniques
I cannot win with chess until I learn how to play and use chess techniques
I cannot win with BJJ until I learn how to use BJJ Techniques
I cannot win with baseball until I learn how to use baseball techniques.

No matter what the activity is, one has to learn first before they can even have a possibility to win with what they train.
I cannot win a kung fu form competition until I learn how to do kung fu Techniques.

I have have the biggest winning mindset and none of that matter if I can't apply what I train.

When it's competition time. You are counting on skills that you know and have already learned how to use. Which is why guys like this don't do well.

They learned how to DO Techniques but not how to USE Techniques. Now if the person just wants to win a fight, then there's no need to do all of that Martial Art's training. Just bring a pipe or a knife and work it out. A win is a win Right?

Sure.

But by winning mindset, what I mean is that when you punch at someone during sparring, let's use the head as an example, you are not practicing arcade style fighting. There is no health bar, no combo breaker. No special moves.

You are practicing one good hit to the head that can win any fight. Over and over in sparring, any time you "pull" that punch you are errant. But if you can control it, you're improving. Throwing a dozen fight ending strikes during sparring, but at 80%, is the goal.

So maybe "winning" isn't the right word. How about "fight ending". Because anything short of that is going to turn out poorly.

 

[Oily Dragon]

And nobody "go hard all the time", that's almost impossible

It's definitely possible, but also the source of most of the world's broken former martial artists.

Suffering for your art was never more appropriate, but it's also not as necessary as some believe.

Kung fu has its own medical and recovery regimens for that reason. Jows work, liniments work, even herbs work. And if you find Wing Chun and other kung fu schools that don't teach this stuff alongside attack and defense, be wary. That stuff is all part of the legitimate traditional sparring component.

 

[Yokozuna514]

Sure.

But by winning mindset, what I mean is that when you punch at someone during sparring, let's use the head as an example, you are not practicing arcade style fighting. There is no health bar, no combo breaker. No special moves.

You are practicing one good hit to the head that can win any fight. Over and over in sparring, any time you "pull" that punch you are errant. But if you can control it, you're improving. Throwing a dozen fight ending strikes during sparring, but at 80%, is the goal.

So maybe "winning" isn't the right word. How about "fight ending". Because anything short of that is going to turn out poorly.

Perhaps I am reading your intent incorrectly. If you are saying you should be sparring at 80% and throwing 'fight ending' techniques during a single session, this is not good advice for the average person. Firstly, no one goes to spar with the intent of being knocked out. Accidents happen and that is when many injuries occur. Good sparring partners will help you improve your game but that won't happen if they are trying to knock your block off all the time. All things created equal (weight, size, fitness and experience relatively equal) that would be one short session every few months. Not necessarily a great way to learn especially if you are talking about head shots.

 

[jayoliver00]

It's definitely possible, but also the source of most of the world's broken former martial artists.

Name the gym(s) and or Martial Artist(s) that spar hard all the time.

Suffering for your art was never more appropriate, but it's also not as necessary as some believe.

Kung fu has its own medical and recovery regimens for that reason. Jows work, liniments work, even herbs work. And if you find Wing Chun and other kung fu schools that don't teach this stuff alongside attack and defense, be wary. That stuff is all part of the legitimate traditional sparring component.

Most of these TMA's don't even come close to what MMA gyms go through in terms of brutality and damage to bodies. We just go home and ice it.

 

[JowGaWolf]

You are practicing one good hit to the head that can win any fight. Over and over in sparring, any time you "pull" that punch you are errant. But if you can control it, you're improving.

When I practice. I only practice to land techniques. The techniques that I practice may or may not end a fight depending on how much power I put into it, and how it catches my opponent. There are other techniques that won't end fights but will aid in my defense and setting up other strikes.

These are all the factors I care about and work on when sparring. My goal isn't to win but to land the technique successfully. This is general flow of my attack
1. Footwork
2. Observation of openings and skill
3. Positioning to open opportunities while avoiding attacks
4. Positioning to execute an attack or a defense
5. Execute attack technique
6. Techniques lands, then execute second attack technique.
7. Execute second attack technique
8. Techniques lands.
9. Goal of landing 1st technique and 2nd technique accomplish
10. Continue to master 1-9 in free sparring with minimum flaw in light sparring
11. Continue to master 1-9 in free sparring with minimum flaw in medium - hard sparring.
need

Training of technique complete. Notice there's nothing in here about me winning. I only care about landing the technique. If you and I spar and I've become and expert at bruising ribs and breaking ribs, Then your ribs will be bruised or broken regardless of your winning mindset. You would have be better at landing techniques or better at defending mine in order to avoid bruised or broken ribs..

Pulling punches only means you are reading the situation well enough and are punching at a low enough speed where you have enough time to determine an attack. execute and attack, and at the last moment determine that it will land too hard so that you need to pull it or redirect it.

If you spar against me at 40% I can still guarantee that I can pull my strikes enough so that you aren't seriously injured. I might be able to do it at 50% but I wouldn't guarantee it. at 60% There's no way I can read a situation and process a decision making action that results in me being able to pull the punch. at 60% I would hit my sparring partner before I even realize that I may need to pull the punch. At 60% power I'm more likely to injure myself by trying to pull a punch that I've just launched at 60% speed and power within a fraction of a second. At 80% power the only control that I have is that the attack will land as it was designed to land.

At 50% I've been known to daze people and the only thing I do to reach 50% power and speed is to completely relax. Meaning I'm not dedicating any thought processes to recall any attack or defense that I execute.

There are are many fighters who went into the ring with a winning mindset only to find themselves taking an early nap. Winning mindset without skill = Kung fu master vs MMA.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Most of these TMA's don't even come close to what MMA gyms go through in terms of brutality and damage to bodies.

Most MMA no longer take the brutal training damage. In the past they would spar hard but now they rarely spar hard. They have come to the understanding that damage to the body like that = short fighting career.

Now there are a lot of MMA schools who do hard sparring only after they have mastered enough skill set to do so and even then. It's a once every 2 or 3 months type event.

 

[jayoliver00]

Most MMA no longer take the brutal training damage. In the past they would spar hard but now they rarely spar hard. They have come to the understanding that damage to the body like that = short fighting career.

Now there are a lot of MMA schools who do hard sparring only after they have mastered enough skill set to do so and even then. It's a once every 2 or 3 months type event.

Define, "rarely spar hard". Please give a percentage.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Define, "rarely spar hard". Please give a percentage.

A percentage of power or number of times? I'm not sure what you are asking..

 

[Dirty Dog]

Define, "rarely spar hard". Please give a percentage.

Do you really think it's the same across the board?
But hey, I'll give you a number. Zero. That's how much sparring Cowboy Cerrone does.
Perhaps you've somehow missed it, but it's been quite well established that repeatedly suffering head trauma (just as one example) is considered something to be avoided. Assuming you want to avoid effectively giving yourself Alzheimers.

 

[drop bear]

Do you really think it's the same across the board?
But hey, I'll give you a number. Zero. That's how much sparring Cowboy Cerrone does.
Perhaps you've somehow missed it, but it's been quite well established that repeatedly suffering head trauma (just as one example) is considered something to be avoided. Assuming you want to avoid effectively giving yourself Alzheimers.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Do you really think it's the same across the board?
But hey, I'll give you a number. Zero. That's how much sparring Cowboy Cerrone does.
Perhaps you've somehow missed it, but it's been quite well established that repeatedly suffering head trauma (just as one example) is considered something to be avoided. Assuming you want to avoid effectively giving yourself Alzheimers.

Just like to add that this trend is nothing new as well.

He was working on those entries good flow

 

[Dirty Dog]

Are you so confused that you think this has anything at all to do with the subject under discussion? You can see it in the subject line, if you need to be reminded, but I'll remind you as well. It's "hard sparring."

 

[drop bear]

Are you so confused that you think this has anything at all to do with the subject under discussion? You can see it in the subject line, if you need to be reminded, but I'll remind you as well. It's "hard sparring."

 

[Dirty Dog]

Again, irrelevant, and I'm pretty sure you knew it. Donald quit doing hard sparring like 5-6 years ago.

 

[CB Jones]

Again, irrelevant, and I'm pretty sure you knew it. Donald quit doing hard sparring like 5-6 years ago.

Ok....but is it the case of an older fighter with 29 kickboxing bouts and over 35 MMA fights no longer needing to do hard sparring due to experience......whereas a young guy still needs the reps at hard sparring?

 

[Dirty Dog]

Because he thinks drills are more important, and that the inevitable injuries from hard sparring are counter-productive.