Inexperienced in hard sparring

[JowGaWolf]

This is what I think many non sparring or non competitive schools miss, and why their sparring sucks compared to competition geared schools.

Most TMA schools don't train their techniques in application. They drill them in non-sparring environments and then when sparring comes or when the fight comes they abandon them. This is TMA's greatest sorrow. To train many years and without trying to actually use the techniques in free sparring. Then making the assumption that the punches in the drills are the same punches that are in sparring and in fights.

Don't get me wrong. I'm o,k. with people just doing TMA for exercise or forms. But they should be honest with their training. I haven't done any sparring in about 4 or 5 years and I miss it.

 

[Ivan]

@Ivan , hope you have healed up well! how many lighter sparring sessions have you had recently leading up to this incident?

Hello. I am doing well. I healed up quite nicely within two weeks, and started with lighter sparring and scaled back up. I haven’t had the chance to experience the same level of sparring at kickboxing as my coach and a lot of other students have been off each for their own person.

However, I have gone back to my old hometown boxing gym as I’ve been nearby, and found a great sparring partner that is 20kg heavier, taller, faster and more experienced. He understands that I need harder sparring but also knows how to control his power. It has helped me get used to fighting bigger people, and has allowed me to see how much I have grown.

I have noticed that I am more able to stand my ground, and considerably less afraid of taking a punch. My proudest moment has been my progress with inside fighing, as I am now more comfortable with it, and even manage to land some very satisfying and sneaky uppercuts through the guard.

He has also helped to point out things I need to work on. A big one is reflex speed, since his jabs are quite fast and I have much more trouble slipping them than I usually do. My main problem however (in terms of moving forward to compete) is still experience, as I do find my flinch reflex returning in random occasions when sparring gets a bit more intense.

I am hoping in a few more months, I will have more developments on this. Although, I don’t know if this will be possible as I am moving back to Glasgow soon, and have not found a striking based martial arts gym with quality sparring yet. Moreover, I have considered focusing on grappling arts as I wish to become an extremely well rounded fighter, and I also believe that my goals are achievable without hits to the head weekly.

There are plenty of successful MMA fighters whose base martial art is one of grappling, and I could gain the sparring experience needed once and if I decide to fully undertake the challenges of competing in MMA.

As it stands right now, my passion is for all martial arts and fighting (whether striking or grappling) and I have no clue on which I wish to compete in first. What I do know, is that I wish for martial arts to stay with me for as long as I live, and I won’t be able to achieve that or any of my other goals if I only focus on striking as it could lead to brain trauma complications.

I thank everyone here for your advice and I look forward to reading your threads, and updating you on other developments in my journey. Have a good one on me

 

[JowGaWolf]

As it stands right now, my passion is for all martial arts and fighting (whether striking or grappling) and I have no clue on which I wish to compete in first. What I do know, is that I wish for martial arts to stay with me for as long as I live, and I won’t be able to achieve that or any of my other goals if I only focus on striking as it could lead to brain trauma complications.

Out of all the things you posted. This statement probably shows just how much you grown. In terms of like all martial arts. Just pick one and work it until your heart is content. You'll eventually discover that a lot of martial arts systems have more similarities than differences. Which is why many of us are from different systems will often the same thing or have similar applications. Learning the applications of one system makes it easier to understand other system basics. You'll soon find yourself saying "Hey, that looks like technique A in my system."

Who knows, you may be the next Jake Mace lol. I hope not, but you may end up being one of those people who enjoy 2 years training at one place and then 2 years training at another place.

 

[Ivan]

Ah I certainly I don’t become a Jake Mace.

Out of all the things you posted. This statement probably shows just how much you grown. In terms of like all martial arts. Just pick one and work it until your heart is content. You'll eventually discover that a lot of martial arts systems have more similarities than differences. Which is why many of us are from different systems will often the same thing or have similar applications. Learning the applications of one system makes it easier to understand other system basics. You'll soon find yourself saying "Hey, that looks like technique A in my system."

Who knows, you may be the next Jake Mace lol. I hope not, but you may end up being one of those people who enjoy 2 years training at one place and then 2 years training at another place.

As for focusing on one art, that’s what I have been attempting to do with Taekwondo. I’ve been practicing it since I was 15/16, but between Covid and moving to Glasgow, I have had to switch from ITF to WTFMy individual practice with Taekwondo has been mainly to perfect the basic kicks (which I believe I am quite close to achieving after 3-4 years). Now I wish to move on to perfecting the more advanced kicks, but I am worried that Taekwondo does not provide me with enough sparring, or anything else.
At this point, I am just sticking to Taekwondo for the black belt and the next few kicks I wish to learn - but I’ve been stuck as a blue belt for almost two years now due to Covid.
I know belts don’t matter, but it’s a matter of pride for me, as much as I hate to admit it.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I know belts don’t matter, but it’s a matter of pride for me, as much as I hate to admit it.

I never thought about how Covid may affect people working towards Belt levels. To change from working towards a belt rank and not being able to due to Covid must be a really big challenge.

 

[jayoliver00]

Not any more. He stopped in 2016.
The past is past. He doesn't currently spar.

Like I said, people say a lot of things for various reasons. Fighters, especially of his tenure, will always want to bang hard at least once a month.

It's fine if you don't care about giving yourself the equivalent of Alzheimers, but it doesn't change the fact that it's a fairly stupid thing to do.

It's fine if you're afraid of getting hit hard, you do you. Or did you want to tell high school football to stop hitting so hard too?

Strawman. I never said that. Maybe you've already damaged your brain?

You couldn't answer; it's ok, you never trained as a fighter to know what goes on.

 

[jayoliver00]

I was referring to people who overtrain at sparring. That's been a thing since martial arts was coined. It could be any gym or Martial artist, without getting specific.

What would you consider, overtrain at sparring?

As far as TMAs, that depends on the school. Plenty of TMAs have full contact sparring and competitions, even if some like Wing Chun are so rare so as to be a laughing stock amongst the MMA crews and their fans.

Yes, that's why I said, "Most of these TMA's".

 

[jayoliver00]

Most people who train TMA aren't training to be professional fighters. You can force them into that type of training but they won't be your customers for much longer.

We don't force anyone neither; nor do we shoot for "professional fighter" whenever a Noobie signs up....the bar is way, way lower than that. If people want to just hit pads and do light drills to maybe light sparring, I'm fine with that. But I still encourage them to set a goal of a least ONE amateur fight or even a smoker fighter; as that's the best way to gauge if they can really fight/defend themselves. After that, we go from there.....light sparring only or go further as a fighter. Otherwise it's just, LARPING.

Most TMA students understand that strikes to the head cause brain damage.

It's Combat Sport. Punches at 30% power, landing flush will cause brain damage. The gym that I'm at, is in a nice neighborhood, charging $150/3 classes /week $190 for 4...9000 s/f space; where we have doctors, lawyers, etc. pulling up in $100k 911's, C8 Corvettes, etc. so I'm pretty sure they know what brain damage is also. If people are scared, that's fine; they can do forms and hit pads. Like the girls don't like getting hit in the face; I'm cool with that.

""Cowboy" said that there are rare exceptions where he'll spar, but it has to be with someone he trusts. The former lightweight title challenger says that he's far past the point of brutal gym battles. "
Source: Donald Cerrone Explains Why He's Stopped Sparring | Fightful News

"I'll get in there and move around with (Andrei Arlovski). Heavy takedowns and grappling, real light sparring." said Cerrone. "The days of putting on the big gloves and throwing down? Hell no. Well, I just did it with Joe Schilling the other day, so I can't say hell no, but we had a good tempo and it wasn't anything crazy. Very controlled. If I'm sparring with someone very controlled who doesn't try to kill me"

Exactly, because he's already done all of the necessary hard sparring to get to where he currently is. And he's about to retire soon so he doesn't need to spar hard any longer; especially with how often he fights. But to be a fighter at the UFC level (esp. Cerrone's level, albeit Gatekeeping Journeyman), you need to spar hard; there are exceptions but those are not the norm. That's why gyms such as AKA, ATT, Jackson/Wink, Alpha Male, Lloyd Irvin, Wildcard, Mayweather, etc. all have hard sparring (right now); this is how and where World Champions are made. And they have classes for women & dudes who only want to train for fitness on the pads/bags too; just pay the fees.

A lot of people are just scared to get hit hard in the face so they come up with excuses. My favorite is, I've got work tomorrow; like they're a high $$$ male model or something.

 

[jayoliver00]

My percentages are about the same as your. Generally my medium sparring starts at 45% to 50% Hard sparring is anything above 51%

My power ranking is
Light sparring = None of the punches or kicks can daze you. Injuries rarely occur

Medium sparring = punches and kicks are thrown at a power that can daze you but not knock you out. Light to medium injury. Injuries take a week or less to completely heal

Hard sparring = Anything that can KO you or cause serious injury. Severe bruising, broken bones, Concussions and blackouts. Injuries take 2 weeks and longer to completely heal

Light sparring about 3 times or more a week (my power output is less than 21%) Controlled power
Intermediate sparring once a weak (my power output is less than 30% -51%) Relaxed power
Hard sparring - once or twice a year. (my power output is 51% - 100% and higher) Added power

The majority of my sparring was at that 30% This allowed students to pull power from punches and to take higher risks It's only when I start adding power to my punches that I don't try to pull or redirect anything as it causes an unhealthy strain on the body.

That was very detailed, thank you. I pretty much agree . I have a lot of Noobs right now so that's about what I do also. Unless someone wants to train for a fight, then I will put them on hard sparring 1-2x a month and more in the last month. vs. me, they can go full power and I go 50% to the head (except jabs at up to 100%), and up 100% to the leg/body.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Like the girls don't like getting hit in the face; I'm cool with that.

ha ha ha.. I don't like getting hit in the face either. But I know what you mean

 

[Ivan]

After that, we go from there.....light sparring only or go further as a fighter. Otherwise it's just, LARPING.

A lot of people are just scared to get hit hard in the face so they come up with excuses. My favorite is, I've got work tomorrow; like they're a high $$$ male model or something.

I agree with the LARP statement, hard sparring is a must if someone wants to be able their self defence skills to be taken seriously.
As for excuses, I get where you’re coming from, but come on I almost got fired over the black eyes I had from the roundhouse kick that knocked me out

 

[Martial D]

Sparring isn't about landing hard, it's about getting the reads to find the openings. Once you are good at that you have the option of what to do with these openings, which ideally will be different things between sparring and competition/fighting.

 

[Yokozuna514]

We don't force anyone neither; nor do we shoot for "professional fighter" whenever a Noobie signs up....the bar is way, way lower than that. If people want to just hit pads and do light drills to maybe light sparring, I'm fine with that. But I still encourage them to set a goal of a least ONE amateur fight or even a smoker fighter; as that's the best way to gauge if they can really fight/defend themselves. After that, we go from there.....light sparring only or go further as a fighter. Otherwise it's just, LARPING.



It's Combat Sport. Punches at 30% power, landing flush will cause brain damage. The gym that I'm at, is in a nice neighborhood, charging $150/3 classes /week $190 for 4...9000 s/f space; where we have doctors, lawyers, etc. pulling up in $100k 911's, C8 Corvettes, etc. so I'm pretty sure they know what brain damage is also. If people are scared, that's fine; they can do forms and hit pads. Like the girls don't like getting hit in the face; I'm cool with that.



Exactly, because he's already done all of the necessary hard sparring to get to where he currently is. And he's about to retire soon so he doesn't need to spar hard any longer; especially with how often he fights. But to be a fighter at the UFC level (esp. Cerrone's level, albeit Gatekeeping Journeyman), you need to spar hard; there are exceptions but those are not the norm. That's why gyms such as AKA, ATT, Jackson/Wink, Alpha Male, Lloyd Irvin, Wildcard, Mayweather, etc. all have hard sparring (right now); this is how and where World Champions are made. And they have classes for women & dudes who only want to train for fitness on the pads/bags too; just pay the fees.

A lot of people are just scared to get hit hard in the face so they come up with excuses. My favorite is, I've got work tomorrow; like they're a high $$$ male model or something.

Hard sparring = yes. The last place you want to find out if you can take a punch is your first competition so sparring moderately to hard should be done from time to time to ensure there is a certain amount of familiarity with getting hit at that level of power. It is also useful test out one's game in a near to realistic setting, ie: Can I continue with my plan if my opponent is using his strategy against me with the intent of also winning the match. So as a test of where one is at a particular point of time, hard sparring is a yes.

Hard sparring may not be the best way to pick up and learn new skills, tactics or strategies. It is hard to acquire new ways of taking your opponent down if you are focused on your own survival. People learn differently so there may be some that can learn at that level of intensity but I would say the majority of folks do not learn well in "sink or swim" scenarios.

 

[jayoliver00]

Hard sparring = yes. The last place you want to find out if you can take a punch is your first competition so sparring moderately to hard should be done from time to time to ensure there is a certain amount of familiarity with getting hit at that level of power. It is also useful test out one's game in a near to realistic setting, ie: Can I continue with my plan if my opponent is using his strategy against me with the intent of also winning the match. So as a test of where one is at a particular point of time, hard sparring is a yes.

Hard sparring may not be the best way to pick up and learn new skills, tactics or strategies. It is hard to acquire new ways of taking your opponent down if you are focused on your own survival. People learn differently so there may be some that can learn at that level of intensity but I would say the majority of folks do not learn well in "sink or swim" scenarios.

Yes, and there are levels. I don't let people hard spar until I see that they're ready. And even then, only hard jabs at first (nothing else). Then only jabs can be thrown hard with everything else light. Then hard jabs and hard low & mid kicks. Progress from there until full hard sparring with everything. People who don't want any hard sparring, then it's fine; but I still encourage them to as they get better. If they want to fight, then hard sparring is a must, so at more than 20% of the time.

 

[jayoliver00]

I agree with the LARP statement, hard sparring is a must if someone wants to be able their self defence skills to be taken seriously.
As for excuses, I get where you’re coming from, but come on I almost got fired over the black eyes I had from the roundhouse kick that knocked me out

True, I guess it depends on your job. I used to work for a Fortune 50 company and didn't have any problems with a medium black eye while in my suit & tie. Although I can't say that it's the same for everyone and their place of employment. People at the office thought it was pretty cool. My old teammate is a VP for a medium sized tech company, and he's had more fights than me with blackeyes after almost every fight and no problems.

 

[jayoliver00]

Sparring isn't about landing hard, it's about getting the reads to find the openings. Once you are good at that you have the option of what to do with these openings, which ideally will be different things between sparring and competition/fighting.

It is about landing hard, if it's "hard sparring". Because hard sparring is not just about "getting the reads to find the openings". Hard sparring is also about finding out if someone can take the pain and able to dish it out. After that, the next session is to see if they still want to go through it again and with repeats. Then after that, the next session(s) are to maintain aggression & to stay sharp; especially for a fight scheduled.

 

[Martial D]

It is about landing hard, if it's "hard sparring". Because hard sparring is not just about "getting the reads to find the openings". Hard sparring is also about finding out if someone can take the pain and able to dish it out. After that, the next session is to see if they still want to go through it again and with repeats. Then after that, the next session(s) are to maintain aggression & to stay sharp; especially for a fight scheduled.

Also a good way to get injured and not make your fight at all if you do it too often. Most sparring should be 50% it is important to know how you react under real pressure, so hard sparring has its place, but with experience it is required less and less.

 

[Yokozuna514]

Yes, and there are levels. I don't let people hard spar until I see that they're ready. And even then, only hard jabs at first (nothing else). Then only jabs can be thrown hard with everything else light. Then hard jabs and hard low & mid kicks. Progress from there until full hard sparring with everything. People who don't want any hard sparring, then it's fine; but I still encourage them to as they get better. If they want to fight, then hard sparring is a must, so at more than 20% of the time.

I think I understand what you are saying here. Depends on the experience (or lack thereof) and reason for training. People often do not have a clue on how they will react to getting hit by an opponent with full force. More often than not, they are so concerned that they will get hurt that they gas out within 30 seconds. Lesson one, we aren't made of glass. Lesson two, no gas the fun is over.

 

[jayoliver00]

Also a good way to get injured and not make your fight at all if you do it too often.

That goes w/o saying, that's why we don't spar hard about 2 weeks before the fight.

It's also not rare to be injured while training for a fight. It's not rare for fighters to still keep the fight date after getting knocked down or even KO'ed during fight camp. Dangerous, yes, but it's not uncommon.

Some people aren't interested in competing but they still want to get in their hard sparring to stay sharp and/or they just like to be a Gym Warrior.

Most sparring should be 50% it is important to know how you react under real pressure,

50% sparring can knock down to knockout. If you're sparring at 50% most of the time, then that's a lot. I have sparring every class, so at 50% power for 4-6 rounds /class is going to cause mild concussions after a few weeks; leading to full concussions then worse, a Secondary concussion.

so hard sparring has its place, but with experience it is required less and less.

It depends on what you want to do and the condition of your head. Most Boxers at the highest levels in the world, still spar hard on a regular basis up to their last fight, right before retirement. Most people are still missing the main reasons for hard sparring; which are, to stay sharp & maintain aggression.