How Important is Fighting in YOUR Martial Art?

[drop bear]

OK, I suggest you volunteer to be Mike Tyson's sparring partner and ask him to spar with you as though it is a title fight and then come back and tell us if you think the money was worth it

First you said this



Then you said this:



Make up your mind.

sparring at 100% is generally considered full contact and full intensity.

That does not mean going flat knacker the whole round or never fighting at a lesser pace.

I don't know how tyson spars. But then you don't either so I am not sure how anybody is making a point here.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

If one generalizes overly, this is true. TMA should have have certain standards that are followed across all styles... That's what makes them TMA's.

On how you define traditional karate, I accede. I'm not looking at the Okinawan Masters you particularly speak of as the defining judges of what is and what is not traditional karate. We have a definitional difference.

It might help us understand you better if you defined what you mean by TMA in general and traditional karate specifically. From what I've read in other threads, you would seem to use the term so that it encompasses Shotokan, TKD, and whatever style you personally train, which you have said is an offshoot of Shotokan. (What is your style called, by the way?) From an historical standpoint, those are all relatively recent members of the karate family and many folks don't consider them to be that traditional. What precisely is it that you mean when you say "traditional?"

 

[drop bear]

Ok on the subject of how mike tyson spars. I wouldn't be jumping in the ring with him.

 

[RTKDCMB]

sparring at 100% is generally considered full contact and full intensity..

Generally considered by who? You see in my school we can spar at full intensity without going full contact.

That does not mean going flat knacker the whole round or never fighting at a lesser pace.

You haven't seen one of our 1st Dan gradings.

I don't know how tyson spars. But then you don't either so I am not sure how anybody is making a point here.

The point I was making is not the point you think it was. Mike Tyson was just an example of someone you would not want to fight full on just for a training.exercise. Reread the posts from post #67 and you might understand my point a bit better.

 

[drop bear]

Generally considered by who? You see in my school we can spar at full intensity without going full contact.



You haven't seen one of our 1st Dan gradings.



The point I was making is not the point you think it was. Mike Tyson was just an example of someone you would not want to fight full on just for a training.exercise. Reread the posts from post #67 and you might understand my point a bit better.

Commonly accepted by me and the people i have trained with. Which is pretty much the meaning of commonly accepted.

The point is even if you have a different version of what 100% is. (and that is fine) this version is still legitimate.

You cant really pick semantic holes just because your idea of sparring is different. Both are allowed to be called 100% sparring.

now while i check up on what your point was about sparring mike tyson. Have a look at the video i posted of mike tyson sparring

 

[RTKDCMB]

Commonly accepted by me and the people i have trained with. Which is pretty much the meaning of commonly accepted.

The meaning of commonly accepted is commonly accepted by everyone, if you wanted to be specific to the group you are referring to you should have said so. Anyway - semantics, not important.

now while i check up on what your point was about sparring mike tyson. Have a look at the video i posted of mike tyson sparring

I already watched the video, I would not want to step in the ring with him either.

 

[drop bear]

The meaning of commonly accepted is commonly accepted by everyone, if you wanted to be specific to the group you are referring to you should have said so. Anyway - semantics, not important.



I already watched the video, I would not want to step in the ring with him either.

Accepted by everyone is universally accepted. Not commonly accepted. I have already specified.

The group is pretty big by the way.

 

[RTKDCMB]

The group is pretty big by the way.

I have a bigger group.

 

[MaxRob]

There is a lot of vermin and sh.. And sick psychopaths out there wanting to take advantage of you for one way or another to submit you to serious damaging violence.
The reason I study and practice Martial Arts and related very important situational self defense techniques is to protect myself and those I love.
To me fighting is the last thing I want to do, I am a fast runner and train heavily in cardio respiratory ,jumping,flexing going out in the field with an instructor to improvise pure self defense techniques.
There are no rules here all is allowed in battle for your life or where harm may come to you.
I subscribe to Adriano Emperado's Kajukenbo because it has taught me to make pain my friend and strike back,( ok that is not for all but those of us with a v high genetic pain threshold it works) using speed which gives one momentum to the square of velocity .Speed is very important in strikes for me, and I constantly practice this
Krav Maga is very situational so it fits with my defensive armoury, as many throws from judo/ jujitsu, and related locks.
Self defense for me is not about kicking oneself around a ring with limitation of moves and strikes imposed by law, but using and practicing all that, use of improvised weapons, the environment has many, wherever you are, in a bar there are bottles of glass...
In a billiard room there are sticks and hard balls, out in the open there are stones, and so on I try to practice with all this, tying to keep a potential attacker as far from you as possible and being able to hit , then get way safely.
As far as weapons , I like the flickblade knife and even a firearm but fear use of excessive force using these, however in a very life threatening situation I would use them,,.. considering I also live in a Country with high crime rates and of recent terrorist attacks so I need practicing avoidance and awareness and be very vigilant.
To know how to fight for me is very important in a martial art particularly if you only use it for real defense.,but the variations are infinite
What is it I call fighting... Using all means available to you to defend yourself in the so many varied situations that can arise and not be afraid to deliver maximum damage in parallel with the seriousness of the attack on you.

 

[Instructor]

This sounds like the usual, Self Defense angle of romanticizing the usual, death match scenarios that hardly ever happens. Street fights usually ends when someone is KO'ed and are usually a lot easier than fighting an equally skilled competitor in MMA or other full contact sports fighting.

MMA fighting is indeed, trying to beat someone to death. Do you think that an MMA fighter is not putting all of whatever power he's got in trying to throw his fist, elbows, knees, etc. into his opponent's face, head, body, etc.? Or do you think that he's only putting in 50% or even 80% and then saving that 100% power & intensity only for the streets? Especially when tens of millions of dollars can be riding on their fight. Hell, even amateurs fighting for no money are fighting with everything they've got. The only reason no one dies is because the fight gets stopped and it's over.

If you had to defend yourself in the street, where you had to fight...what's the goal usually? Incapacitation probably, which is basically a KO. How is an MMA fight, where fighters strive for this incapacitation, any different than in the street? Once you KO your attacker in the street, are you going to keep soccer kicking his unconscious head until he goes into a coma or dies? Same with inside an MMA cage, the Ref or even the corner, stops the fight. In the street, many times, other people, bystanders, police, etc... stops the fight or even the winner, stops attacking someone who's KO'ed, on his own. I have around 700 videos of real fights and adding more almost every day. Only about 2-3 where someone actually died from being continuously beaten to death, and there overseas mostly, in really poor countries. Another 2-3 are from someone getting KO'ed with 1-2 punches and they crack their head on the cement and dies later at the hospital; these were unintentional deaths.

This covers the "beat the living crap out of you", the "kill you" and the "maim you" and "rape you" parts. Mugging and robbing, well that's easily resolved by just handing over your valuables, most of the time. If they didn't just suckerpunch you or surprised bashed you on the head with a brick to take your money, then they're probably not looking for a fight to begin with.

When I was attacked in 1990 it was in broad daylight in the middle of a crowd of people. My attacker beat me savagely till all I could do try to keep my hands in front of my head on the ground. The crowd watched.... My facial bones broke. My jaw broke. I went unconscious. When I awoke three days later in the hospital they told me that he was still hitting my unconscious face and head when the guard finally ran up and pulled him off me several minutes after I was out cold.

This person abandoned reason and was in a state of uncontrolled rage. There is nothing romantic at all about what happened to me in that real life fight. It was scary and painful and terrible and required years of personal counseling and martial arts training for me to overcome that terror.

Yeah so, nothing like that ever happens in MY martial arts class.... We spar.

 

[Tez3]

When I was attacked in 1990 it was in broad daylight in the middle of a crowd of people. My attacker beat me savagely till all I could do try to keep my hands in front of my head on the ground. The crowd watched.... My facial bones broke. My jaw broke. I went unconscious. When I awoke three days later in the hospital they told me that he was still hitting my unconscious face and head when the guard finally ran up and pulled him off me several minutes after I was out cold.

This person abandoned reason and was in a state of uncontrolled rage. There is nothing romantic at all about what happened to me in that real life fight. It was scary and painful and terrible and required years of personal counseling and martial arts training for me to overcome that terror.

Yeah so, nothing like that ever happens in MY martial arts class.... We spar.

I didn't want to 'like' this post because that sounds wrong and none of the others you can click on seemed right either, so I'll say instead thank you for your post. It can't have been easy to share this. I'm very pleased you are okay now though.

I think you are right about the 'romantic' thing, too many are glorifying 'on the street' and 'street fighting' as well as thinking that going full contact or 100% in a training environment is ever going to be the same as an attack by what is basically an enemy intent on destroying you.

 

[Instructor]

You are welcome Tez. Sometimes it's important to cut the crap.

 

[RTKDCMB]

When I was attacked in 1990 it was in broad daylight in the middle of a crowd of people. My attacker beat me savagely till all I could do try to keep my hands in front of my head on the ground. The crowd watched.... My facial bones broke. My jaw broke. I went unconscious. When I awoke three days later in the hospital they told me that he was still hitting my unconscious face and head when the guard finally ran up and pulled him off me several minutes after I was out cold.

This person abandoned reason and was in a state of uncontrolled rage. There is nothing romantic at all about what happened to me in that real life fight. It was scary and painful and terrible and required years of personal counseling and martial arts training for me to overcome that terror.

Yeah so, nothing like that ever happens in MY martial arts class.... We spar.

A friend of mine was kicked in the groin and thrown off the second floor of a block of flats and then had his groin repeatedly stomped on so I hear ya.

 

[FriedRice]

Big talk even for the internet. So are we talking your average MA guy or a champion like Bas Rutten. I don't like my chances with Bas but I don't have a problem with the MA guys that I teach.

But again in your post above, we've gone from 100% to 70%. That's a step in the direction of reality.

I bet most MMA guys in your weight class with at least 5 fights shouldn't have a problem with you as you don't seem to coming from a standpoint of someone who fights. I mean what other talk is there? We're over the internet and not next door to each other, so I'm merely speculating based on what information you've given me.

 

[FriedRice]

This is the internet. I can't read your mind. All I have is what you write. You are prone to hyperbole.

But I must remember, going for a knockout is 100%. So if I apply a choke and my partner taps, that would also be 100% and if I apply an armbar where I could dislocate the elbow or shoulder, that might also be 100%.

At least we got that straight.

I didn't think that what I said in terms of going 100% power & intensity, was that difficult to understand. But now I must remember that you're not a fighter from a fighting gym but rather a Self Defense/TMA guy. Although I would think that someone advanced, would be be able to differentiate such. But if you want to talk about hyperbole, for you to think that I meant going at 100% power at a non-stop pace from the start to the end of a 5 minute round or even 2 minute round, is just wild and wacky. I mean, who the heck even fights like that?

 

[FriedRice]

OK, I suggest you volunteer to be Mike Tyson's sparring partner and ask him to spar with you as though it is a title fight and then come back and tell us if you think the money was worth it

Ok so now you're just getting mad because I refuted your argument. There are videos of Mike Tyson whacking the hell out of his sparring partners on YouTube. And this was from an era where not everyone had an iPhone to record everything they see. Plenty of other Boxers from Pro to Amateur, going hard for KO's in training. And in general, Pros don't allow people to film them. Just because this scares you and you're ignorant of such common practice of a fighting gym, doesn't mean that it's a fairy tale.

First you said this

Then you said this:

Make up your mind.

Not sure how else I can explain it to you. Puppet show maybe?

 

[Drose427]

Ok so now you're just getting mad because I refuted your argument. There are videos of Mike Tyson whacking the hell out of his sparring partners on YouTube. And this was from an era where not everyone had an iPhone to record everything they see. Plenty of other Boxers from Pro to Amateur, going hard for KO's in training. And in general, Pros don't allow people to film them. Just because this scares you and you're ignorant of such common practice of a fighting gym, doesn't mean that it's a fairy tale.



Not sure how else I can explain it to you. Puppet show maybe?

Yes, he sparred that hard when we has competing and had a fight upcoming.

You've had several Boxers and MMA guys tell you in this thread that isn't typical in weekly training unless it's the week before a bout.

Sparring that hard every single day of training is a good way to not be in pgood enough physical condition for your bout.

You can't perform with a concussion and 3 broken ribs.

Not understanding this makes you seem like you don't actually train and compete in boxing/MMA.

 

[FriedRice]

I don't know how tyson spars. But then you don't either so I am not sure how anybody is making a point here.

Just two of a few. Back in those days, there were no iPhones so it was rare for people to film everything. They had giant VCR videocameras that used VHS tapes or Beta, and they were humongous and cost like $4000 when they first came out. But as a general rule, most Pro fighters didn't allow liberal filming of their training, especially someone at the top like Tyson.

 

[FriedRice]

The point I was making is not the point you think it was. Mike Tyson was just an example of someone you would not want to fight full on just for a training.exercise. Reread the posts from post #67 and you might understand my point a bit better.

edumacation:

Mayweather Verbally Abuses Sparring Partner - YouTube

 

[FriedRice]

I already watched the video, I would not want to step in the ring with him either.

Then why do you keep insisting that Boxers never spars for KO's and that specifically, Mike Tyson, never did?