Here is an example of someone who really had to fight Mike Tyson: Robin Givens Talks Ray Rice Domestic Abuse Case Mike Tyson Marriage - Us Weekly
How Important is Fighting in YOUR Martial Art?
- Thread starter elder999
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Givens recalled one particular harrowing incident. "I remember being dragged down a hallway in a hotel in the Bahamas on a night I thought I was really going to die,"
FriedRice
Master Black Belt
I'm sorry that happened to you, but I never said that it never can happen. Your incident is very rare, based on my research and data. There's still plenty of romanticizing such scenarios going on in SD classes though. Because that's the schtick, to say how it's so real and somehow superior than Sports fighting should it happens in the street. In reality, the chances of such happening is very, very rare. I take Self Defense very seriously, that's why I legally, EDC a 9mm and 2 knives w/1 being a 5.5" razor sharp blade that's like a mini katana.
The irony here is, what really prepares someone for such a street beatdown like you've experienced, is to train as a Sports Fighter and to actual spar for KO's and further, fight full contact in the ring or cage. An experienced Fighter will have the best chance in such scenarios. Any good Fighter, would have paid their dues of being on the receiving end of beatdowns, many, many times over. It takes getting hit in the face quite a lot and for many years, to get used to it and to even enjoy it.
Rare huh? Has anybody else here on this forum ever been attacked in the real world?
I haven't been attacked as such but have had people try to have a go when I was working, as part of that work I've dealt with people who have been attacked though and it's not as rare as some think.
FriedRice
Master Black Belt
First, show me where I said that sparring for KO's should and must take place, every week? It could though, and would on the gym. My gym, we don't spar for KO's every week. But show me where I said this or you just made it up.
Second, you're wrong about this 100% power sparring being "the week before a bout" being the norm. Because this is crazy and risks injuries. It's 2 weeks and more, before the bout that such hard sparring takes place. The final week is usually heavy cardio and techniques. I wonder who doesn't train and compete in boxing/MMA.
drop bear
Sr. Grandmaster
Actually I know a guy.
drop bear
Sr. Grandmaster
I was yelled at once.
I have, 3 years of Boxing didn't do squat. Broke my hand one guys jaw, his buddy. Grabbed me from behind and slammed me into wall so hard it broke my nose. Then he just threw me to the ground and the kicked me until the owner and a couple employees of the store we were outside of came out and stopped them.
Total damage was a cracked hip, 3 broken ribs, a cut Above my eye, and a broken nose.
Sport fighting did nothing for me.
Maybe MMA would have helped me more, but even if I'd tried to submit one of them, the other would have just beat me while I was trying.
These weren't guys my size, these were 2 men twice my size and build. One of whom got the drop on me because I focused too much on the guy in front of me, like I did in the ring.
After that, I avoided that part of Indianapolis unless I absolutely needed to be there. When I did, I took count of everyone around me and where they were
Thanks for sharing Drose. Glad you are still with us. Regarding size and numbers, in the real world people usually attack when they know they will win, i.e. size and numbers.
FriedRice
Master Black Belt
Thanks for proving my point that such incidents vs. Robin Givens wasn't even that bad compared to what Tyson did to his opponents in the ring. If Tyson threw everything he had at Givens, like he did to his opponents in the ring, he would knock Given's head, clean off. I'd take domestic abuse slaps to the face that are held back like Givens endured, any day over just a full jab from Tyson, and thank my lucky stars afterward.
Same with Ray Rice. That's just a 1 shot KO and he stopped. No continuing of beatings here. In the MMA cage, the other guy is trying to put his full fist, knees, elbows, etc. at 100% power into my face and body until I'm incapacitated. And he's going to hit a lot harder and better than Ray Rice.
Thank you,
For me that a defining moment. I realized Sport fighting had flaws. Something my coach wasn't very clear about with his "you'll defend yourself just fine!" speeches.
After that I started cross training as much as I could. To me, MMA as a sport isn't the important part. It's the cross training, contact, and pressure. Where I can get guys together and we can mix it up. We can wrestle with punches, do 2 v1 drills, and things MMA coaches probably won't make you do because they're training you for the ring
You don't need sport fighting for any of that, and training for a specific thing can hurt you
toddfletcher
Yellow Belt
After 25 years of off and on training in four different styles (OhDoKwan, So-Hwa KungFi, combat applied kenpo, judo), I train for #1) Self-Discipline #2) Personal Defense #3) Health #4) Social interaction. So even with 'fighting' at the core of why we train, it comes in second on my priority list.
As far as how important, at my age I am beginning to see my training as a way to improve the quality of my life with age, but we should always be able to return to the foundation concept of ability to fight. Even TMA reliance on belt requirements can become a stumbling block to innovation in what is actually effective in fighting. My master always called it the 'master's dilemma'. Training to fight leads to some students losing. How to do this without causing a student to quit training.
My definition of 'fighting'. Ability to stop someone from doing harm to you. Also known as the 'dominance struggle'.
FriedRice
Master Black Belt
And what would 3 years of anything else besides Boxing would have done for you? And 3 years of Boxing can mean a lot of different things in terms of experience and capabilities. There are plenty of people in the MMA gyms that I float around to that are nowhere close to being fighters, even after many years of training. Many train for exercise, get & stay in shape, as a hobby, etc. and don't even like to spar hard. It would help. How much it would have helped in this situation of yours, depends on many variables. Any kind of training helps. Even Track & Field would help if you were able to run away, then they wouldn't likely have the speed nor endurance to catch you. All I'm saying is that training as a fighter, and actually fighting, preferably MMA is the best, but not the only way about it...nor is it a guarantee to save you during such or any attacks.
while i havent been jumped by 2 guys since, Ive been able to handle myself better with TSD than I ever did when I was competing with Boxing.
I now know standing grappling, and most important, how to get out of the exact bear hug he threw me in.
Observation and awareness was drilled into me since day one, I wouldnt have let him get the drop on me.
i know how to handle folks 100 lbs larger than me, because thats who I work with full contact every time I train.
Techniques that are illegal in boxing or MMA are natural for me now
When both was use similar contact and methods, the most helpful is the one with the least limitations. Even MMA has a good list of illegal moves
I now know standing grappling, and most important, how to get out of the exact bear hug he threw me in.
Observation and awareness was drilled into me since day one, I wouldnt have let him get the drop on me.
i know how to handle folks 100 lbs larger than me, because thats who I work with full contact every time I train.
Techniques that are illegal in boxing or MMA are natural for me now
When both was use similar contact and methods, the most helpful is the one with the least limitations. Even MMA has a good list of illegal moves
FriedRice
Master Black Belt
How does pretending to hit someone or hitting them lightly, 1 on 1 or 2 on 1....more realistic than MMA training for a competition fight, where you're getting punched and grappled from light to full power and sometimes for KO's? And when you're in the cage, it's certainly at 100% power for the KO.
I've dropped in on a few diffferent Krav Maga gyms during their advanced level sparring only class. They do a warmup exercise and then it's all sparring. First 1 on 1 then 2 on 1 and 3 on 1. 2 on 1 is pretty easy as I just keep the weaker one in between me and the tougher guy, circle and pick my shots. 3 on 1 is more challenging and that's where I have to drop 1 or 2 and then the last one gets reluctant. Now this one particular Krav gym has a legit MMA program with about 2-3 fighters who will kick my butt, not easily but they should beat me. But these MMA fighters don't bother training in the KM classes it seems, they only train in the BJJ, MT and MMA class.
A lot of schools break nose, lips and bleed in their classes. Full contact when doing SD is extremely common. The idea that only MMMA or Boxing uses full contact methods shows you have had little experience in TMA.
FriedRice
Master Black Belt
Punching someone in the face never ceased to work for me, for both the ring and the street.
I wasn't actually talking to you but you should try rereading the posts so that you don't miss the point entirely again..
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