Fraud.....

[Thunderbolt]

From just listening to Speakman and his views on rank, the Kenpo community, and martial arts in general, I beyond the shadow of doubt think that to be false.

Speaking of Speakman. At his seminar he a student who was a 1st Dan with him and after he noticed that some people did not agree with "his views" (some were Kenpo guys) he invited "anyone" in the room to come up and "train" with his student. No one stepped up and a couple walked out!

it's indeed a bad sign when people walk out of your *seminar*.

I guess it's time to put his *MA curriculum* or *seminar's ticket* on Ebay to see if anybody bids on it.?

 

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

Aw, c'mon guys...instead of all this mutual admiration on the internet...why don't we do something constructive...and promote each other to a higher rank! Who wants to go first! artyon:

 

[Thunderbolt]

Speaking about *fraud* in kenpo/kempo. Partial blames should go to *some of senior members or founder(s)* for letting this happen.

After all, if I were Chow or Mitose or any *famous* GM or FOUNDER and I told you to stop *selling* or *giving* high rank for $$$$$, would you dare to ignore me.???? Absolutely not.

Since some people have 1 eye OPEN and 1 eye CLOSE, i guess other *people* mistakenly think it's OK to do SO.

The last thing we know is everything is out of control.

No hard feeling and NO disrespect intent to *high profile* persons.

I only offer my 2 cents.

 

[tmonis]

Speaking about *fraud* in kenpo/kempo. Partial blames should go to *some of senior members or founder(s)* for letting this happen.

After all, if I were Chow or Mitose or any *famous* GM or FOUNDER and I told you to stop *selling* or *giving* high rank for $$$$$, would you dare to ignore me.???? Absolutely not.

Since some people have 1 eye OPEN and 1 eye CLOSE, i guess other *people* mistakenly think it's OK to do SO.

The last thing we know is everything is out of control.

No hard feeling and NO disrespect intent to *high profile* persons.

I only offer my 2 cents.

Thunderbolt I respectfully agree with you. No disrespect intended. however when you see 1st generation Black Belts selling tapes and offering video ranking. It boils down to a couple of things. 1. It is all about the money 2. I kinda look at them as being has beens. It is a real shame to see one of Mr. Parker's 1st Black belts selling rank by video. They all have them out now. GM Villari, Prof. Ibrao, GM Tatum, and on and on and on. No doubt these Grandmasters are everything they say and have proved themselves time and time again. They are world champions and everything else. Why, after all the years of hard work you put into the Martial Arts, would you sell Black Belt ranking via video. There are alot of things that can be missed on video.
No disrepsect intended but I just don't understand. $$$$$$$

 

[Thunderbolt]

Thunderbolt I respectfully agree with you. No disrespect intended. however when you see 1st generation Black Belts selling tapes and offering video ranking. It boils down to a couple of things. 1. It is all about the money 2. I kinda look at them as being has beens. It is a real shame to see one of Mr. Parker's 1st Black belts selling rank by video. They all have them out now. GM Villari, Prof. Ibrao, GM Tatum, and on and on and on. No doubt these Grandmasters are everything they say and have proved themselves time and time again. They are world champions and everything else. Why, after all the years of hard work you put into the Martial Arts, would you sell Black Belt ranking via video. There are alot of things that can be missed on video.
No disrepsect intended but I just don't understand. $$$$$$$

i'm glad that I am not the ONLY one who thinks that way. Great minds think alike.??? LOL.

I watched "Alexander-the great" movie last weekend. I remember Alexander said to his soldiers "fame and money make MAN weak."

 

[tmonis]

They say it is the root of all evil. I take Karazenpo's stand on it all. I would rather close the doors to my school then sell out my reputation for a few dollars. I agree with him that there alot more people out there with more money than I in the martial arts. But I am all about spreading the knowledge, not trying to make a million dollars. I am proud to say that every Black Belt I have ever awarded has earned every piece of it through blood, sweat, and tears. Countless hours of training etc. No one will ever be able to say it was a cake walk with me.


Prof. Todd

 

[James Kovacich]

it's indeed a bad sign when people walk out of your *seminar*.

I guess it's time to put his *MA curriculum* or *seminar's ticket* on Ebay to see if anybody bids on it.?

LOL.

I think I understand "why" he has attitude.

 

[TChase]

However, I'll gladly close my doors before I compromise my priniciples and after three decades in the arts there are MANY who have much more money than I do, and for that, I am PROUD!, lol.

I wish there were more like you still left in Kenpo/Kempo. :asian:

 

[TChase]

i'm glad that I am not the ONLY one who thinks that way. Great minds think alike.??? LOL.

No you're not the only. There's still a few out there who agree with you...me being one.

 

[John Bishop]

Speaking about *fraud* in kenpo/kempo. Partial blames should go to *some of senior members or founder(s)* for letting this happen.

After all, if I were Chow or Mitose or any *famous* GM or FOUNDER and I told you to stop *selling* or *giving* high rank for $$$$$, would you dare to ignore me.???? Absolutely not.

I have to disagree. They would simply start their "own" system, make themselves 10th degrees, and sell all the video ranks they can.
Ego and greed knows no bounds.

 

[tmonis]

I have to disagree. They would simply start their "own" system, make themselves 10th degrees, and sell all the video ranks they can.
Ego and greed knows no bounds.

John,

You do have a point there. Greed is what is all about when it comes down to it to them. What happened to Respect and Honor?

 

[Karazenpo]

Speaking about *fraud* in kenpo/kempo. Partial blames should go to *some of senior members or founder(s)* for letting this happen.

After all, if I were Chow or Mitose or any *famous* GM or FOUNDER and I told you to stop *selling* or *giving* high rank for $$$$$, would you dare to ignore me.???? Absolutely not.

Since some people have 1 eye OPEN and 1 eye CLOSE, i guess other *people* mistakenly think it's OK to do SO.

The last thing we know is everything is out of control.

No hard feeling and NO disrespect intent to *high profile* persons.

I only offer my 2 cents.

Yes, Thunderbolt , I agree with you but John Bishop has a point also, egos and greed are so big that they won't listen anymore, but not only that, they don't FEAR because the way society is now, who can't really go after someone physically for this and not be prosecuted. The respect is long gone and legally, there's no intimidation factor anymore, they would say as they do to police offciers these days: Go ahead and try it! Do it! And I'll have your badge and sue your sorry ***! Tom Chase, thank you very much for your support on my beliefs, I sincerely appreciate that, thank you again! "Joe"

 

[KenpoDave]

They say it is the root of all evil. I take Karazenpo's stand on it all. I would rather close the doors to my school then sell out my reputation for a few dollars. I agree with him that there alot more people out there with more money than I in the martial arts. But I am all about spreading the knowledge, not trying to make a million dollars. I am proud to say that every Black Belt I have ever awarded has earned every piece of it through blood, sweat, and tears. Countless hours of training etc. No one will ever be able to say it was a cake walk with me.Prof. Todd

Money is A root of all evil, not THE root. John Bishop mentions a few such as ego and greed. Fame.

Perhaps if people would stop watering the roots... :asian:

 

[Thunderbolt]

I have to disagree. They would simply start their "own" system, make themselves 10th degrees, and sell all the video ranks they can.
Ego and greed knows no bounds.

We have a different oppinion on this issue. I still think that *top* people should be responsible for this kind of thing.

Where do people get their 8,9,10 th degree from.? The answer is *top* people. A 3rd degree BB guy can't get 8 th degree from 1 degree BB guy, right.??? I mean in term of *RECOGNIZATION* and *ACCOMPLISHMENT*

If you are a founder of a system and you see this kind of thing happen in your *own* system and you don't do anything about it, your *leadership* sure speaks for itself.

if you are senior members of a system and you don't enforce the rules in the system, what kind of senior members are you.?

*low* rank members will always look up to *senior members* and *founder*. If these two fail to do what they suppose to do, you can image how bad these *low* rank members are.

Sure Ego and greed knows no bouds BUT *top* people are the one who need to say STOP.

You can have a big ego and greed BUT if NOBODY gives you what you WANT, can you have what you want.?

A kid wants to buy a toy BUT if his parents say NO, you think that kid will have a toy.????? Absolutely not.

That is the bottom line.

 

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

No Thunderbolt...it's more like the Academy Awards or the Grammy's. Self-congratulation and promotion applauded and supported by other peers.

And I don't think it is necessarily driven by money. When someone invests all their energy for 20 or 30 years into a pursuit, they wan't some recognition.

 

[Karazenpo]

No Thunderbolt...it's more like the Academy Awards or the Grammy's. Self-congratulation and promotion applauded and supported by other peers.

And I don't think it is necessarily driven by money. When someone invests all their energy for 20 or 30 years into a pursuit, they wan't some recognition.

EGO, EGO, EGO!

 

[tmonis]

No Thunderbolt...it's more like the Academy Awards or the Grammy's. Self-congratulation and promotion applauded and supported by other peers.

And I don't think it is necessarily driven by money. When someone invests all their energy for 20 or 30 years into a pursuit, they wan't some recognition.

Recognition, self congratulation, and promotion applauded by your peers after working hard for 20-30 years, testing before a panel of your peers and earning your title is a wonderful thing. That is the way it should be. And for the most part is the way it is done. However what we are talking about is the guy who gets promoted to 1st Dan in 1994 and by 2004 he is a 9th Dan. Or the guy that sends in a video tape and gets promoted without ever training with the Grandmaster who promoted him/her. Or how about the airplane promotions everyone has spoke of. I must have been in the dark on that one. I didn't even know that had happened. My hats off to the MA's that have earned it the hard way. The ones that make a bad name for everyone else are the Frauds out there. This guy claimed to have been a private student of Prof. Cerio back in the day and could not even tell me where he lived. Sad part is this guy has managed to suck up to a very well known Grandmaster and they are traveling all over the U.S. promoting people. People they have never even trained with. A one day seminar and bam your an 8th degree.

 

[Thunderbolt]

Self-congratulation and promotion applauded and supported by other peers.

you mean the same *peers* who received their 8,9 dan in 4 years.?

is it a wonderful thing when you know everybody else did it in the same group.?

let's get together and *promote* each other. it's fun

 

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

Look guys...I think the practice is terrible!!! My very first post on the MartialTalk and on the KenpoNet was a satirical analysis of the practice entitled "It's time to Promote the Kenpo Seniors". I have a link to that thread on page 3 of this thread.

Now, having said that...if anyone wants to offer me a 9th or 10th degree here on Martial Talk, I'd be happy to reciprocate. artyon:

 

[Toasty]

You know all this "rank" and "political" crap area among the reasons why I have nothing to do with kenpo anymore.

Heck, even when i thought i asked a pretty straight forward opinion-type question, I had to "define" it like 3 times cause kenpo guys seem to always overthink things.
Props again by the way to (i believe it was) Karazenpo for actually answering it!

Why is everyone so concerned about who is higher and according to who?

Let me ask you this, who promoted Mr. Parker to his 2nd thru 10th rankings?

Who promoted Mr. Chow to his rankings?

Who promoted Mr. Mitose to his rankings?


And on a somewhat more serious note, is there really a difference (that anyone could tell {without looking at the stripes} between a 5th & 6th degree blackbelt? How about 6th or 7th degree?)

P.S. Doc, this does not necessarily refer to whomever you are speaking of, but I think that it is possible for a student to learn & understand an art better than the founder (especially if the founder is deceased).
Here is why, by the reasoning that it took the founder of the art/style a series of trial & error experiments (for lack of a better term) whereas, for the student, this learning curve is greatly reduced and he/she can concentrate on the art itself and getting better at something that already exists.
Actually isn't that the goal of the martial arts teacher? To make the student better than the teacher?

anyway, just my thoughts
Rob