Fraud.....

[expressdog01]

whats up akja
I belive you put speakmans name and the word fraud togather, but I am the one who brought his name up so if that is problem e-mail me for my phone number and address
DOC said nothing but his smily smiled deal with it
expressdog01@sbcglobal.net
Stan Kline

 

[Shortay]

I have to say, I think the main people these 'frauds' are cheating are themselves.

I wouldn't give up the sense of accomplishment - the feeling like I've earned my new belt for anything!

 

[James Kovacich]

whats up akja
I belive you put speakmans name and the word fraud togather, but I am the one who brought his name up so if that is problem e-mail me for my phone number and address
DOC said nothing but his smily smiled deal with it
expressdog01@sbcglobal.net
Stan Kline

Another dojo buster or whatever. To clarify, I barely met Jeff through Hanshi. I was speaking to Doc who at one time time if I'm not mistaking taught Speakman. A professional question and he has the right answers, unlike you. Deal with it.

I'm easily found. My phone# is on my site. My door is open and I'll greet you when you make the flight.

 

[James Kovacich]

One of the things that we have done to remove any rank pressure is, "All black belt numerical ranks are honorary or emeritus. No exceptions. The real document in our curriculum that is prized is a "Teaching Credential." No credential - no teach - no exceptions. The teaching credential has various levels covering varying aspects of the curriculum. The higher the level, the greater the time envolved. No exceptions. Every level at every rank has a "minimum time requirement" that is broken down into "classroom hours." Not weeks, months, or years, but actual hours in the classroom taking instruction. When the hourly requirement is completed, than a student is eligible to petition to take an advancement test. Whether or not his petition is accepted, is up to the testing and credentials committe.

Doc, I think you are a wise man. :asian:

 

[GAB]

akja,
I like your style, I will have to make a point of getting over to your Dojo and watch what you are doing. I am a friendly old guy so I am sure we will get along. LOL..

Take care, keep your back covered.

Regards, Gary

 

[James Kovacich]

akja,
I like your style, I will have to make a point of getting over to your Dojo and watch what you are doing. I am a friendly old guy so I am sure we will get along. LOL..

Take care, keep your back covered.

Regards, Gary

Like my Sifu, my door is open, especially those who are practically in my backyard!

Also, I'm putting together a technique page which will be up soon. I started it for my students so that they could "trigger" theoir memory. Anyway, theirs is separate from this one. But this one will eventually show ALL of the Kempo Ju Jitsu Basic Technique. But not "how we put it all together."

Some would call it "grafting" but what makes it unique is that ANY techique can be used in conjunction with ANY technique at any time.

Take care, :asian:

 

[GAB]

akja,

I went to the website, I really like it. I will spend some more time later, right now I have to go and beat on those bags and hit the sticks.

Take care and thanks for the invite.

Regards, Gary

 

[shane23ss]

Thanks for your responses.

tmonis,

that is terrible that something like that would happen. things like that DO give kenpo in general a bad name. my instructor had skill as well. in fact he was probably at the level he had on his belt, but it was the way he went about it that caused me to lose respect. once i received my BB, i stayed a while, but I slowly went less and less until I wasn't going at all. a couple of years later the school closed because of reasons I am not sure of (believe it was family issues).

I have thought about opening a place of my own. I guess the only thing holding me back is that I am 1st Dan. I know that sounds stupid, but I have noticed a lot of people (not familiar with, or just starting in the martial arts) look at how many stripes are on your belt because the guy down the street has 6 or 7, and they wonder why you don't. I know that really doesn't matter cause it will show on the mat, I just don't want to become a statistic. I do try to do some research on associations, but like you said, there are a lot out there. At the time I was attending that school, I was in TX, I now live in the North West corner of TN, bordering KY. There are several different martial arts schools around here, but no Kenpo schools that I know of. As far as joining an association, I'm not sure how that would work. Would I travel to their school every so often to test and what not, or is it some other way. Like since I live in TN, and joined an association in CA, how would that work? Thanks.

 

[Doc]

Doc, I think you are a wise man. :asian:

I think you're cute too! :ultracool

 

[tmonis]

Thanks for your responses.

tmonis,

that is terrible that something like that would happen. things like that DO give kenpo in general a bad name. my instructor had skill as well. in fact he was probably at the level he had on his belt, but it was the way he went about it that caused me to lose respect. once i received my BB, i stayed a while, but I slowly went less and less until I wasn't going at all. a couple of years later the school closed because of reasons I am not sure of (believe it was family issues).

I have thought about opening a place of my own. I guess the only thing holding me back is that I am 1st Dan. I know that sounds stupid, but I have noticed a lot of people (not familiar with, or just starting in the martial arts) look at how many stripes are on your belt because the guy down the street has 6 or 7, and they wonder why you don't. I know that really doesn't matter cause it will show on the mat, I just don't want to become a statistic. I do try to do some research on associations, but like you said, there are a lot out there. At the time I was attending that school, I was in TX, I now live in the North West corner of TN, bordering KY. There are several different martial arts schools around here, but no Kenpo schools that I know of. As far as joining an association, I'm not sure how that would work. Would I travel to their school every so often to test and what not, or is it some other way. Like since I live in TN, and joined an association in CA, how would that work? Thanks.

Shanes23ss,

Where do you live in TN? What style of Kenpo do you practice? One of the best Kenpo stylist that I know lives in Knoxville, TN. (GM Bruce Corrigan) He has been around along time and has trained with some of the best. (Prof. Cerio, Prof. Godin and GM Pesare to name a few.) I live in Columbia, SC and have a great network of people who could help you. By all means if you are the only Kenpo stylist in your area, you should start a class or school in your area. Start small and work your way up. By the time you have a student to test for Black Belt, you will have more than likely have been promoted yourself. We could help you. I will PM you soon about some other opitions. But be careful about the associations that you get in with. Most only want your money.

Todd

 

[DoxN4cer]

All of the comments are obviously on the money. Consider that "Kenpo" has more 'grandmasters," and "masters" than any other martial art form and you began to get an idea of the significant impact the commercialization and the "business" aspect of "kenpo" has had on all forms of the art.

Doc, I would have to differ from you there. The various forms of Korean martial arts beat out Kenpo by a mile for that. Every school owner seems to be a master or garndmaster. The FMA follows at a close third.


Tim

 

[hammer]

well. i have read all the posts in this thread, and it only brought to bear my own furstrations, being in australia we are so far removed from the kenpo world, as to its exsistence in its home land,

i have been in kenpo since eighty seven, and like those mentioned in the pervious threads,my instructor promoted him self to seven dan , and bastardize the system ,along the way in his design to make a money making machine, as with promoting his most senior students to a 6 dan and 5 dan, as a kid this was most impressive but as we grow an mature this becomes to light , and the worst thing they could have done was put them selves on video, lol

Unaware of this i had taken some time out of my trainning ,when returned to the assioation, had folded, yet the said 5 dan remianed teaching,with some revison i was back up to speed , yet his knowlege of kenpo did not pass green belt, so in a cry for help i contacted an american senior , who travled to australia , offering to help, yet in the end indorsed the grades that were current,[ of the 5dan] only to join his assoation, and represent him here in oz , but who cares,

Is the martal arts purely a money making machine ???

And for the person that truely wants to learn the art must he beg, borrow and steal,

who compensates for time wasted,

oh yes we to have the speakman camp here this is even funny the head of his system here is a seven dan from his own made up art , please

its out right theift ,

sorry its just a fowl taste in my mouth,

 

[Doc]

Doc, I would have to differ from you there. The various forms of Korean martial arts beat out Kenpo by a mile for that. Every school owner seems to be a master or garndmaster. The FMA follows at a close third.
Tim

Yes I'm familiar with that, and its like that in the USA as well. Ed Parker Sr. called them "airline promotions." You get on a plane in Korea as a 1st degree and land in the USA as a 7th. I personally remember Joo Bang and Soo Bang Lee as 1st degree students of Sea Oh Choi in Hapkido here in Southern California. Then they quit, formed their own organization and became Grandmasters of "Hawrangdo" in the sixties. Now their sons are "grandmasters" and they are "Supreme Grandmasters."

However the difference is striking in kenpo because so many of the masters and GM's come from essentially the same modern day lineage. Almost all of them can be traced back to in some manner the Chow/Parker lineage. Most of the Koreans would simply claim the rank from nebulous sources in Korea as opposed to a particular lineage or singular teacher for all of them.

Just how many masters and grandmasters can there be in Ed Parkers American Kenpo? Who knows but I can tell you this. The majority of them are from Mr. Parker's very commercial motion based art, so I guess it's appropriate they should make it sooner than Ed Parker Sr. did himself. Perhaps they understand his art better than he did. Ya think?

 

[Drac]

Try not to worry about who gets promoted to what. Eventually those who try to pull the wool over everyone's eyes wil get exposed at some point.

Truer words were never spoken (written)..

 

[Karazenpo]

Yes I'm familiar with that, and its like that in the USA as well. Ed Parker Sr. called them "airline promotions." You get on a plane in Korea as a 1st degree and land in the USA as a 7th. I personally remember Joo Bang and Soo Bang Lee as 1st degree students of Sea Oh Choi in Hapkido here in Southern California. Then they quit, formed their own organization and became Grandmasters of "Hawrangdo" in the sixties. Now their sons are "grandmasters" and they are "Supreme Grandmasters."

However the difference is striking in kenpo because so many of the masters and GM's come from essentially the same modern day lineage. Almost all of them can be traced back to in some manner the Chow/Parker lineage. Most of the Koreans would simply claim the rank from nebulous sources in Korea as opposed to a particular lineage or singular teacher for all of them.

Just how many masters and grandmasters can there be in Ed Parkers American Kenpo? Who knows but I can tell you this. The majority of them are from Mr. Parker's very commercial motion based art, so I guess it's appropriate they should make it sooner than Ed Parker Sr. did himself. Perhaps they understand his art better than he did. Ya think?

Hi Doc! Hope all is well with you and yours. Yes, I, too, have heard about the Korean situation but I also remember the 'airline promotions', It was in an article in one of the karate mags years ago, but it referenced 'Okinawa' at the time. There was even an article, I still have it somewhere, I think Black Belt, about three U.S. servicemen who were awarded their shodans while stationed in Okinawa. The article stated one night they 'tied one on' with their instructor, drinking 'saki' and by the end of the night he promoted them to 8th degree black belts. Well, it said he regretted it in the morning and got in touch with the three. He told them that in the U.S. they can claim 8th but in Okinawa, 3rd. The article stated at the time of it publication (late 80's, I think) that two were now 10ths and one was a 9th. I think Kenpo/Kempo gets a bad rap because of the numbers. The propagation of the Hawaiian derived kenpo schools since the 60's just simply overwelmed the martial arts community and when you have that high a number, you have a lot of good but also a lot of bad to go with it. Same percentage as any of the other systems but less of an overall volume to pull from, so you hear more about the abuses in kenpo/kempo. Yeah, Doc, I think the Koreans paved the way for this, lol. Hammer asked about money, I say: For many, it's always about the money. However, I'll gladly close my doors before I compromise my priniciples and after three decades in the arts there are MANY who have much more money than I do, and for that, I am PROUD!, lol.

 

[James Kovacich]

oh yes we to have the speakman camp here this is even funny the head of his system here is a seven dan from his own made up art

From just listening to Speakman and his views on rank, the Kenpo community, and martial arts in general, I beyond the shadow of doubt think that to be false.

Speaking of Speakman. At his seminar he a student who was a 1st Dan with him and after he noticed that some people did not agree with "his views" (some were Kenpo guys) he invited "anyone" in the room to come up and "train" with his student. No one stepped up and a couple walked out!

 

[Doc]

Hi Doc! Hope all is well with you and yours. Yes, I, too, have heard about the Korean situation but I also remember the 'airline promotions', It was in an article in one of the karate mags years ago, but it referenced 'Okinawa' at the time. There was even an article, I still have it somewhere, I think Black Belt, about three U.S. servicemen who were awarded their shodans while stationed in Okinawa. The article stated one night they 'tied one on' with their instructor, drinking 'saki' and by the end of the night he promoted them to 8th degree black belts. Well, it said he regretted it in the morning and got in touch with the three. He told them that in the U.S. they can claim 8th but in Okinawa, 3rd. The article stated at the time of it publication (late 80's, I think) that two were now 10ths and one was a 9th. I think Kenpo/Kempo gets a bad rap because of the numbers. The propagation of the Hawaiian derived kenpo schools since the 60's just simply overwelmed the martial arts community and when you have that high a number, you have a lot of good but also a lot of bad to go with it. Same percentage as any of the other systems but less of an overall volume to pull from, so you hear more about the abuses in kenpo/kempo. Yeah, Doc, I think the Koreans paved the way for this, lol. Hammer asked about money, I say: For many, it's always about the money. However, I'll gladly close my doors before I compromise my priniciples and after three decades in the arts there are MANY who have much more money than I do, and for that, I am PROUD!, lol.

That's why youdaman Joe. :asian:

 

[tmonis]

Doc,


I agree with you. Joe is the man.:ultracool

Respectfully & Humbly

Prof. Todd

 

[Matt]

who compensates for time wasted,

If you improved your skills, it wasn't wasted. If you know now how it shouldn't be done, and can see the difference when it's done right, it wasn't wasted. If you are worried about rank, then yes, the time was wasted.

sorry its just a fowl taste in my mouth,

Man, I was just thinking that last Thursday.

Matt

 

[Karazenpo]

Thanks guys, it's mutual.........