Kenpo Rank

[Michael Billings]

Bob Liles has developed and been doing a Kenpo Aerobics class for about 2 years now (ever since he recovered from the hip replacement.) It is an awsome workout and I understand he did it in Germany last year, and if I am not mistaken, in Spain this year. It is totally inspiring to watch 100 or so Kenpoist doing Parting Wings as part of a 45 minute class of non-stop motion. He was doing the same workout at the gym several times a day. Of course it may not be as inspiring to see non-Kenpoist trying to do a technique (snicker, snicker), remember, we all did not always know Kenpo.

-Michael
UKS-Texas

 

[Goldendragon7]

:asian:

 

[Seig]

Does wearing an allegedly bullet proof vest count as a weight vest?

 

[Goldendragon7]

if it's full of bullets and not holes....... holes have no weight!

:asian:

:rofl:

 

[Seig]

I know a few 'holes and I could strongly disagree with you on that point!

 

[Goldendragon7]

 

[Ronin]

I tell ya these forums are out of control!!!!

 

[Seig]

Originally posted by Goldendragon7

a@@holes

 

[jazkiljok]

the original rank concept was for kids in a classroom environment.

it is japanese in origin, even though adopted by many other asian and eclectic based arts.

even JKD has rank-like system. it's not as obvious but you move up a latter never the less.

in the old days (before 20th century) it was simply teacher and student- those at teacher levels shared info and readliy acknowledged superior ability and knowledge of other teachers- or fought to find out.

rank promotion is overly emphasized for adults. its relevance is only as some here stated to schools and organizations and that's from a business stand point mainly. i.e. no promotion, no long term commitment and don't forget those fees.

any method of rank promotion is valid within itself. peer voting, higher ranks pulling you up, lower ranks pushing you forward- it all is as good as the next.

after black -- people in the end decide what they want in higher or lower ranks- some turn it down, some will run around to different sources to obtain more.

there are no standards from org to school to garage. never was.

rank also has no meaning to individuals who seek no students and learn for their own benefit alone.

basic Calisthenics for 30 minutes before a training session 5 times a week will keep you in pretty good shape.

 

[Goldendragon7]

Originally posted by Seig
a@@holes

Ohhhhhhhh

roflmao

:rofl:

 

[cdhall]

As far as the merits of a Belt Rankings system go, I agree almost entirely with Infinite Insights vol 1, ch 10, pgs 97-99.

The only issue I see is that we "forget" that Ranks have no value/less value outside of your studio. Ranks are not to show the cashier at the Grocery store, or the Kung-Fu Master at the Shaolin Temple (unless that is your system). They are to let everyone know where they are in relation to where they are going... and this is sometimes meaningless to a person who is not studying with or teaching you. They are an aid to teaching as well as a motivation to studay and advance. I'm done with my 2 cents.

I hope.
:asian:

 

[kenpopr]

Sorry guys but I kind of lost the thread here. . . .

The question I think was how we achieved the rank. . .

I know I am not a veteran as many MA here in this forum, but my opinion is simple. . . . rank has the purpose you put into it. It is all part of human nature.

Also, why do we have to prove to others what rank we are?! I have been in AKK for 15 years now and I currently have a 1st Degree BB. . . i know of people nearby that were white belts when I was green and/or brown and now they are 3rd or 4th degree black belts. . . how did they get there before I did?! I don't know and I don't particularly care. BUT whether they deserve it or not I extend them my respect. In the long run, knowledge and skill is what determines your actual ranking.

Time? Yes, I do believe time has its merit and should be a promotional (ranking) tool, but time should only be used when time is used wisely. Just because you were 5 years as a certain degree does not mean you are ready for the next one.

So, I guess this could be one of those questions with no true answer since it all depends from your own point of view. I guess that my final saying would be . . . . ranking should be analyzed and determined the way SGM Ed Parker told us to view our techniques.

"Having three points of view will help increase your perspective".
- Infinite Insights into Kenpo; Book1:Mental Stimulation
Introduction, page1

So what could be your three points of view in your ranking?!
1. Your direct teacher, professor, sensei (Whatever you want to call him!)
2. Your MA style community; such as organizations or associations
3. Yourself!!


Full Salute to all!!

Luis Gines
www.KenpoPR.com

 

[Thesemindz]

I've often thought about this myself. Specifically with regards to whether a fourth black training on the sixteen system was the same as a fourth black on the 24 or 32 technique system. In my experience training with students from a variety of martial arts at a variety of ranks, including advanced ranks, brown, black, or the equivalent in judo, several systems of kenpo, muy thai, several systems of tkd, okinawan kenpo, capoeria, aikido, juijistu, and bjj, I've come to see rank as being mostly generally equivalent. Brown belts across systems may not have the same amount of techniques, they may not have the same depth of understanding or curriculum, but they are generally intermediate in their area of expertise. Color belts are generally beginners, and get gradually more solid as beginners as the move up. Black belts are generally adaptable and grounded. When I'm in a room of brown belts, you can kinda tell, from the conversations they have, which we had at that time too, to the way they move and how hard they hit. After enough exposure you could look at a group of people doing different martial arts without any noticable ranking and probably group them according to general proficiency and be generally correct. This is generally true of alot of other skills too. I've noticed this in weightlifting, and pizza delivery too. When the experienced veteran just smiles and nods as the novice describes the best way to do anything, as though he's the first person to make that discovery. When there's just black belts in the room, you can usually tell by how much space they maintain around themselves, even in polite conversation. They control that space. White belts tend to stand too close and forget about their environment. Intermediate students eye everyone in the room to size them up, because they finally developed that ability and need to practice it. There are just things that give us away that are alot more telling than how many techniques you have. How many sequenced memorized self-defense techniques did Mr. Parker have to know for his Black Belt test?


-Rob

 

[Thesemindz]

As to the original question, which was how does one recieve rank. I've also been troubled by this, as my instructor is a fifth and after that, I have no one to turn too. I've thought about several ways to promote, including seeking out one new master, seeking out a wide sampling of seniors from different ends of the spectrum with different focuses and missions to endorse my rank so that I could not be accused of any political motivation, taking several of my best students at different ranks to demonstrate their material before a panel to show the quality of the instruction I give and the Kenpo I perpetuate, applying to a panel of masters from a variety of martial arts, and other similar ideas. None are easy or simple, but I feel that rank is important, and worthy, especially at that level, of sacrifice and effort. Ultimately, I have decided to burn that bridge when I get to it. I have many years before I need to worry about where to go for my sixth black. For now, I will stay with my current instructor, train as hard as I can to learn everything he will share with me, and do my best to pass that on to the students assigned to my care. I have a responsibility to the future of Kenpo and martial arts in general to do the best I can right here while I'm here. In ten or fifteen years when I need to test for my sixth black, I will no doubt have a vastly different perspective than I do now, and will probably be in a better position to make an informed decision about how best to pursue it. For me, rank is a reflection of my dedication and contribution to the art. It is not for ego gratification, it is not for social standing. My wish is to be a legitimate recognized undisputed tenth someday, because the only way to accomplish that is to make great and wonderful contributions to Kenpo, the likes of which Mr. Parker made. The likes of which were passed on to me.


-Rob

 

[Sigung86]

I'm way late to this discussion and not even "really" Kenpo anymore, but the rank thing is waaaay over rated.

Interestingly, back in those halcyon old days, late 60 and early 70s, after the split between the Tracy's and SGM Parker all fell out, there was lots of people in lots of places who found themselves without places to go. In those days there wasn't the communication available today, and there was still lots of shake ups and fall outs from various people who didn't have a way to promote due to allegiances and/or distances.

I think a lot of people went where they could to find rank. For example, my instructor, Dick Ranney, was an involuntary part of a "seperate" civil war that occurred in San Antonio that I am not privy to all the details of, to this day. But, unless you were privy to certain accesses, there was no promotion beyond third. Dick Ranney, who has since quit teaching and walked away from Kenpo, eventually ended up taking his climb to 5th degree under Don Nahoolewa, in Kajukembo ... Which was, as I understand it, a seperatist movement, at the time from Kajukenbo, and yet somehow, ended up being ranked up under Adriano Emperado. Phew... Hope you can follow that, I don't know if I can redescribe it.

Interestingly, the same kind of crap continues to this day, over 30 years later... Nothing has changed much. And so, I have to conclude that rank is nothing more than what you want it to be. You can make an association, write bylaws that allow for automatic promotion, word it however you want, and Shazaam! It is valid.

Or, it can happen as it happened to me... Al Tracy told me that as long as I was loyal, my promotions were set up to continue to go. I was told, off the record as it were, that Al was going to have another gathering of eagles at some future date, and that he was planning to have me in, promoted to eighth dan and considered for his Kenpo Hall of Fame. Then, on the whim of several politically oriented people. Bang! All gone.

I was contacted by several people who indicated that were I to start an association, that they would collectively promote me to 10th degree as the head... I passed on that, and so it goes.

So, rank really doesn't matter much in the end. You can make it belts with stripes, sashes with sew on stars (some of the Chinese), educational types of ranking like Doc Chapél does (which in the West really makes more sense), or you can simply give out certificates of proficiency. In the end... It's only what you make it... Or, in the end ... Nothing at all.

 

[BKing]

Hi Dan,

Well, You rank right up there with me !

What happened to my 4th of July Cyber Burger and Fries ... ??

Hope you are well...

and can you make that a Cheese Burger please ?

Take care,
BK

 

[Sigung86]

Hi Dan,

Well, You rank right up there with me !

What happened to my 4th of July Cyber Burger and Fries ... ??

Hope you are well...

and can you make that a Cheese Burger please ?

Take care,
BK

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOooopppppsss!!!!
Er ... I was busy??? --> :ladysman:

Ummm ... There were these three guys with knives!!! %-} %-} %-}

Ulp.... I guess I fo'got! Sorry! :angel:

One cyber cheeseburger comin' up! :ultracool

Hey BKing! Hope things are going very well for you up yonder and over. Glad to hear from you.

 

[Doc]

I'm way late to this discussion and not even "really" Kenpo anymore, but the rank thing is waaaay over rated.

Interestingly, back in those halcyon old days, late 60 and early 70s, after the split between the Tracy's and SGM Parker all fell out, there was lots of people in lots of places who found themselves without places to go. In those days there wasn't the communication available today, and there was still lots of shake ups and fall outs from various people who didn't have a way to promote due to allegiances and/or distances.

I think a lot of people went where they could to find rank. For example, my instructor, Dick Ranney, was an involuntary part of a "seperate" civil war that occurred in San Antonio that I am not privy to all the details of, to this day. But, unless you were privy to certain accesses, there was no promotion beyond third. Dick Ranney, who has since quit teaching and walked away from Kenpo, eventually ended up taking his climb to 5th degree under Don Nahoolewa, in Kajukembo ... Which was, as I understand it, a seperatist movement, at the time from Kajukenbo, and yet somehow, ended up being ranked up under Adriano Emperado. Phew... Hope you can follow that, I don't know if I can redescribe it.

Interestingly, the same kind of crap continues to this day, over 30 years later... Nothing has changed much. And so, I have to conclude that rank is nothing more than what you want it to be. You can make an association, write bylaws that allow for automatic promotion, word it however you want, and Shazaam! It is valid.

Or, it can happen as it happened to me... Al Tracy told me that as long as I was loyal, my promotions were set up to continue to go. I was told, off the record as it were, that Al was going to have another gathering of eagles at some future date, and that he was planning to have me in, promoted to eighth dan and considered for his Kenpo Hall of Fame. Then, on the whim of several politically oriented people. Bang! All gone.

I was contacted by several people who indicated that were I to start an association, that they would collectively promote me to 10th degree as the head... I passed on that, and so it goes.

So, rank really doesn't matter much in the end. You can make it belts with stripes, sashes with sew on stars (some of the Chinese), educational types of ranking like Doc Chapél does (which in the West really makes more sense), or you can simply give out certificates of proficiency. In the end... It's only what you make it... Or, in the end ... Nothing at all.

You know I've been considering switching to "hats." We can make them different colors and sizes with unique markings. And the really high ranking get to wear one of those jobs from the seventies. You know, wide brim, purple with a wide snakeskin band. Wear that bad boy tilted to the side, and everybody will know who the "Grandmaster Pimp Daddy" is. Say wha sucka? Sheeeet, you dont know who you be messin with.

 

[Dan G]

You know I've been considering switching to "hats." We can make them different colors and sizes with unique markings. And the really high ranking get to wear one of those jobs from the seventies. You know, wide brim, purple with a wide snakeskin band. Wear that bad boy tilted to the side, and everybody will know who the "Grandmaster Pimp Daddy" is. Say wha sucka? Sheeeet, you dont know who you be messin with.

Or perhaps kilts, (provided everyone absolutely refrains from kicking above the waist) :barf:

Dan

 

[Doc]

Or perhaps kilts, (provided everyone absolutely refrains from kicking above the waist) :barf:

Dan

Screw that man, I've seen fat people in dresses. It ain't a pretty sight when you gotta bend over.