Agendas, Kenpo Associations, & Grandmasters

[Michael Billings]

... just so long as you don't say I was inferring what was talked about at any meeting was a load-o-stuff.

Ricardo, I thought you were used to being popular?

OK, so now I am off topic. Seriously, how do you perceive the upcoming reorganization of the IKKA and "Homecoming" in relation to the topic of this thread? (just stirring the pot)

Oss,
-Michael

 

[lonekimono]

Hey mile don't use salt, i can't have salt
but keep that pot going:rofl:

 

[lonekimono]

sorry thats mike

 

[KENPOJOE]

Originally posted by Michael Billings
... just so long as you don't say I was inferring what was talked about at any meeting was a load-o-stuff.

Ricardo, I thought you were used to being popular?

OK, so now I am off topic. Seriously, how do you perceive the upcoming reorganization of the IKKA and "Homecoming" in relation to the topic of this thread? (just stirring the pot)

Oss,
-Michael

This is actually my second response but i hit the wrong button and deleted the first answer:vu: so here we go again!

As a long standing member of the IKKA, I am all in all happy with the new direction the IKKA is heading in regards to reorganization and the more "open mindedness" that is fortold towards membership in other kenpo organizations as well as ideas that will bring the IKKA proudly into the 21st century!
Furthermore, I am looking forward to the upcoming "homecoming" at the Pasadena Studio with many of the "old guard" that created much of the history of that legendary location. It's a great opportunity for all members of the multitude of the kenpo organizations members to see many of the top instructors and heads of those different groups to see many of the people that they had only read or heard about and get on the floor with them and study from them! I've seen many individuals not attend or avoid/boycott certain events in the past to their own detriment when those event were never held again,when certain individuals who were there succumbed to the grim reaper,never to teach again...
I always like to quote the rock opera, "Jesus Christ,Superstar" where Jesus says to his apostles "Move while you still see me, because you'll be so sorry when i'm gone."
So, let us put the "Kenpolitics"(TM) and enjoy this rare opportunity!
:::GETTING OFF MY SOAPBX NOW:soapbox:
I hope that I was of some service,
KENPOJOE

 

[cdhall]

Originally posted by Michael Billings
... just so long as you don't say I was inferring what was talked about at any meeting was a load-o-stuff.

Ricardo, I thought you were used to being popular?

OK, so now I am off topic. Seriously, how do you perceive the upcoming reorganization of the IKKA and "Homecoming" in relation to the topic of this thread? (just stirring the pot)

Oss,
-Michael

I hope it works, but there is scarce info on the IKKA site except a flier for the Pasadena Homecoming and an IKC flier for 2004.
:ubercool:

They need a PR guy or section or a News page with less broken graphics on it.
http://www.ikka.us/IKC/IKCEvents.htm

I don't know what else is going on, but it looks like "almost" everyone who was at Mr. Duffy's camp in 1994 will be in Pasadena this summer.
http://www.akfkenpo.com/homecoming.htm

I'd like to go myself but I need to sell a lot of Legal Plans (shameless plug for the School Management Sponsor) before I can go.

 

[Michael Billings]

I love that term. I have heard it called a lot of things, most of them you would hesitate to say in polite society, but this just caught me at the right time in the right way.

"Kenpolitics" (TM) may not be able to be put aside, although it is a nice thought. I understand part of the event is to explore the possibility of including some of the attendees as members and representatives for the new IKKA. Lots has changed in the decade since everyone resigned ... well not everyone, but lots of Regional Directors and members quit circa 1992-1994, and new Associations and ranks never seen are out here now. We can always hope for the best and expect the worst.

I think the event will be great - the outcome for the Association, well, I can only hope for the best. It would go a long way toward addressing and remedying the very issues that prompted me to start this post. AND IT IS AN ANSWER, or at least an attempt to answer, a problem - rather than point out why it is so hopeless to try to get back together, or why one Association or instructor is better than another, etc. I truly do hope for the best and hope everyone is open to trying to bring some unity back to American Kenpo.

Although lots of good has come from the "Scattering," The Journey was a starting point for Kenpoists everywhere to identify with a core group of Seniors. It certainly did not include everyone, but maybe it opened the door for some people to get back together. They are coming home now, and possibly there can be a reintegration to some extent. We can only wait and see what is offered to whom, and whether they will accept in their hearts, and try for a more united KenpoPlanet.

Oss,
-Michael

 

[cdhall]

This is a Tangent but I think it may fit in here.

As I did the Homecoming Video 7 years before The Journey was published I have been wondering why these guys don't get together more often.

So here is are my questions.

How many Black Belts are there on Earth?
How many of these guys are Black Belts in EPAK and trace their lineage back to SGM Parker?

If we took all the EPAK Black Belt on Earth and all the "other" Black Belts on Earth and lined the 2 groups up across from each other what would happen?

If such a "gathering" took place, how many EPAK people would "cross the line" to go put someone in their Rolodex and how many would turn to their right or left and make some plans to get together or start talking about Kenpo and Mr. Parker?

Or would that just cause them to break up again?

It just seems to me that it is hard enough to find an EPAK School and then when you do find one it doesn't take long to see that several of them don't seem to want to mix with any others. What's up with that?

How hard is it to study Mr. Parker's system? Who is helping and who is not? It may be more accurate to ask "Who is trying and who is not?"

If I just learned about Mr. Parker today and went out to go find a studio to study in based on what I know now it would take me a year or more of research to find one that taught "his system" as it is presented in Book 5 (since this would be the only real way to find out what to look for) and I would have at least half a dozen people telling me that one Kenpo studio or another is either not good or does not teach the system properly and I might end up studying some other art that "has grappling, weapons, and chi/energy training." Is this what Mr. Parker wanted to happen?

 

[lonekimono]

doug you make sense and i agree, what was it that MR PARKER
said
" the mine is like a paraehute, it works best when it's open":asian:

 

[Goldendragon7]

Originally posted by lonekimono
What was it that MR PARKER said " the mine is like a paraehute, it works best when it's open":asian:

What he didn't say was.... "You must also have it strapped on for it to work for you".

:asian:

:rofl: dude, we gotta get you a spell checker! New Jersey is not an award winning scholastic system........ :rofl:

 

[RCastillo]

Originally posted by Goldendragon7
What he didn't say was.... "You must also have it strapped on for it to work for you".

:asian:

:rofl: dude, we gotta get you a spell checker! New Jersey is not an award winning scholastic system........ :rofl:

Good, at least you're not picking on Texas anymore!

 

[cdhall]

Originally posted by Goldendragon7
What he didn't say was.... "You must also have it strapped on for it to work for you".

:asian:

Thanks George. Mr. C. makes a good point though so I wonder what was in the water when Mr. Parker taught so many private lessons that made everyone think that they were the only ones who got the goods?

Mr. Parker, Jr. has a good perspective on this. He says he'd see a guy leave the house after his lesson and his dad may or may not roll his eyes or something but the guy would think he was "it" a lot of times and then someone that guy never met would come in for a lesson right after him and now these guys are all arguing about who studied with Mr. Parker and who learned what but all they really know for sure is that Mr. Parker taught private lessons in his house, at the airport, in the kitchen, and God only knows where else and he did it All Over the World. Who knows what he taught who? Did he "tailor" his lessons to his student's "gifts?" Does that sound like a Kenpo idea...?

I don't get any of that KenpoliticsTM (Joe Rebelo I believe) stuff. If someone shows me something that does not violate a concept or principle then I say it is "right" and that if they can defend themselves using the Gaseous state and not violate a principle, then they know Kenpo. I've seen people who can do this more or less better than others but none of these guys are "wrong."

I just want to learn as much Kenpo as I can the way Mr. Parker put it out there so I can be assured of building from a solid foundation. I've also seen enough people to know that I am NOT Ever going to be one of the elite Kenpoists on Earth so that is not my goal either. I'll probably never know what or how Mr. Speakman does some of his stuff and I've heard that Mr. Liles is incredible and of course Mr. Trejo was unmatched during his competitive era. I think I can fend off an attacker or 3 pretty well (as long as it is not one of these guys!) and I can teach this stuff and maybe produce some students better than I am but all I want is the proper Kenpo Tools (thanks Mr. C.) to work with so I know I can get the job done.

Telling me that someone is not doing it right does not help me. As I told someone once, this is Kenpo, a Martial Art, not a Philosophy class, so get on the mat and prove it. That is where I check my facts. Does it work or not?

Thanks George. I don't know if this relates to your post, I'm probably just "venting" and I mean nothing ill toward you whatever. Thanks for the compliment. I think you are one of those guys that could show me a lot as well.
:asian:

 

[lonekimono]

hey DENNIS OK I SPELLED mind wrong
SORRY,SORRY ,SORRY
what can i say:rofl:
come out you can stay with me at my home wait or is that hom?
no wait i know it's homie, watt ever no wait it's whatever well you know what i mean

 

[Brother John]

To remain a student of Kenpo you always keep learning, following Mr. Parker's example to the end. He used to say that every day he learned one thing new about Kenpo. When you tout yourself as a Grandmaster, you cease being a student

How in the world do you arive at this conclusion?? A Grandmaster ceases being a student??? why's that? Mr. Parker was the Senior Grandmaster, but was a student to the day he died.

I don't mean to sound offensive, but I just don't see the logic trail leading to your conclusion Mr. Billings.

Your Brother
John

PS: ALSO, WHO agreed to never don a tenth. Where/When was this? What purpose does this serve? Honoring & remembering our Dear founder has nothing to do with making the number of stripes on his belt sacrosanct.
Besides, it's his title of SENIOR GrandMaster that sets him aside as the founder right? Why is more than that needed ?

 

[Michael Billings]

I agree Mr. Elmer.

Doug, that is a lot of the attitude that I see as the problem in Kenpo now. It is accurate, and realistic unfortunaty. But can't we change it? Is that the KenpoWorld you want to live in, or have your kid's live in, should they follow in your footsteps?

We can all stand back and throw tomatoes, we can all take pot shots at what does not work and why. But, can we all challenge ourselves to be part of a solution? I can only hope.

The old joke "How many Kenpo Black Belts does it take to change a lightbulb? Answer: 100; one to change the light bulb and 99 to say "that's not the way Mr. Parker showed me" is the reality of our Kenpo World right now. But some Seniors, New Seniors, and students are trying to make it better. There are lots of issues now contributing to "the Scattering" (to borrow a phrase from Frank Herbert), including new Associations, different requirements for belts, different techniques, lack of consistancy in rank proficiency, ego's, belts, money, etc. We all know the problems, so what is the answer? That is what I am looking for Doug. You are either part of the answer or part of the problem. CHOOSE!!!!

Oss,
-Michael
(P.S. - Doug, I hope it is obvious that this post was not directed at you personally. It was not. You merely provided the impetus and forum for my expressing yet another of my unpopular positions.)

 

[Brother John]

NICE quote from a Great Author!

DUNE rules!!!!!!!!!!!!
Your Brother
John

 

[Michael Billings]

John,

Just got your PM, back with you in a minute. The 10th decision was made at the Pasadena seminar following Mr. Parker's death. It was also when the title was adopted. Someone correct me if I am wrong. I was there, but it was 12 years ago.

I thought this was reaffirmed when the AKSC was formed and Mr. LaBounty and Kelly were bumped up to 9th. Which they still are today, out of respect for SGM Parker.

No sweat, I know Mr. Parker learned something every day about his Kenpo, and never ever stopped. He was increadable. Nope, I just object to the poitics of who, how, why, 10ths are grown and promoted. This is not a personal judgment regarding who deserve the 10th, but rather what a mess it causes at times and with who. See the thread a little earlier on.

Glad you are here John, and never a problem with disagreements, well maybe sometimes ... but I get over it and admit I am wrong.

Oss,
-Michael

 

[Goldendragon7]

Originally posted by Brother John
How in the world do you arive at this conclusion?? A Grandmaster ceases being a student??? why's that? Mr. Parker was the Senior Grandmaster, but was a student to the day he died.
I don't mean to sound offensive, but I just don't see the logic trail leading to your conclusion Mr. Billings.

Your Brother, John

Ya' know for a brown belt you're pretty smart! LOL

What I think Mr. Billings was referring to was that many of "today's Grandmasters" "seem" to cease being a student, since they have the coveted 2 bars.

Originally posted by Brother John
Besides, it's his title of "SENIOR" GrandMaster that sets him aside as the founder right?

Wrong, Let's just say it "SHOULD BE AS YOU SAY". I agree wholeheartedly. But if you look close........ the title of "Senior" Grandmaster is being used by several. In my opinion (and yours) it should be ONLY for Mr. Parker, but you need to tell those that are using it that they shouldn't (somehow you and I as well as many others got that message but it obviously missed others somehow?).

:asian:

 

[lonekimono]

Thank you doug, you know something? i never stop learning
and as Mr C ( my buddy Dennis) said i have the chute on all the time and i make sure I PUT IT ON.
but doug i want to say one thing NEVER sell yourself short
it will not matter who it is on the street when you have to defend yourself.
so if it's someone like Frank, jeff,or BoB why would that matter
is it because you know what they can do? yes it is
i'm going tell you like i tell my students",if you have to then it's done"
there is no time to think about it.
and the other thing is when it dout,don't ( did i spell that right?):asian:

 

[cdhall]

Originally posted by Michael Billings
(P.S. - Doug, I hope it is obvious that this post was not directed at you personally. It was not. You merely provided the impetus and forum for my expressing yet another of my unpopular positions.)

Sir,

I must have missed something. I was not offended by you or anything and I think you make excellent points. One of the restaurant managers I worked for said the same thing about being part of the solution.

But I think I was part of a solution with the video I did (no, I'm not running for office and don't send any money or ask to join me or anything ) but besides that, I think all the flavors of Kenpo are just someone showing how they tailored the art to themselves. So as long as someone is not insisting that they know the "only way" I think there can be hundreds of correct ways to do "Delayed Sword" for example depending on whether you are fighting your Evil Identical Twin or Hulk Hogan or a Lollypop Guild member etc.


I would have to know what exactly the problem is before I proposed a solution. If it is the problem I pointed out above about choosing a Kenpo school I think the solution is obvious:

1. Codify a Base for American Kenpo that everyone can refer to (including the underlying Principles and Concepts) which I think Mr. Parker did.
2. Admit that What If's allow for a near infinite number of ways to modify said Base, which I think Mr. Parker said.
3. Admit that 1. and 2. above are the case and that there is no One Way to do something. This is clearly contradicted by Mr. Parker's tailoring concept in my opinion.
4. Agree that no one exists who knows everything Mr. Parker knew and can do what Mr. Parker did or get together and tell the rest of us who this is.
5. Reserve the title of SGM for Mr. Parker and maybe even outline some requirements for promotion to 5th-10th. I think Mr. Parker said in the Blue Belt manual that there could be any number of 10ths.
6. Maybe make some attempt to weed out the obvious Charlatans defaming EPAK.
7. Do unto to others.... as I think some Jewish guy said before he was hung out to dry 2000 years ago. Someone who I also think Mr. Parker held in high regard.

I think Mr. Parker showed everyone what to do...
:asian:

 

[Michael Billings]

If only the world were a simple place, not complex, sophisticated to the point of simplicity.

I think 1 - 5 of your posts were done. I can only wish 6 was. And we should all live #7.

That is all for tonight guys,
Respect to All,
Oss,
-Michael