Fraud.....

[GAB]

Hi Shawn, I still have your number and when I get a chance I will pm you. We can establish a connection and continue later.

Good post, the ice in those screwdrivers can hurt. LOL

Regards, Gary

 

[The Kai]

Hi All,

Regarding the type of contact Shawn is talking about is more like point contact.
IMO.
Not hitting full steam but making contact and getting the point.

It is the essence of contact but not as hard. Some times it gets out of hand and people get hurt.

Regards, Gary

I'm confused I'm getting 2 disseperate mental pictures here. Which is it Bare knuckle and padded, focused ot heavy contact??
Todd

 

[Karazenpo]

Dude Shuras:

Rock on.

Dave.

LOL.......

 

[Karazenpo]

Agreed sparring builds the ability to get hit and keep going, there is always time later to check or think about the pain. Been a while since putting on the boxing gloves and going at it!
Todd

Been a while since putting on the boxing gloves and going at it!
Todd[/QUOTE]

Believe me, Todd, I'm almost 53, work out very hard but very rarely put on the gloves anymore and go that hard, about a year ago was the last time. No one should if you've been training for a long time, I 've been in the arts for 32 years and your body along with your 'head' can only take so much of a pounding over time and then you're just asking for trouble. I feel some things now and should and probably will quit while I'm ahead, if you know what I mean. Let's face it, at this stage of the game I certainly don't have any aspirations to be a world kickboxing champ, lol. In all seriousness, I think the most important thing, from a self defense standpoint, is feeling confident about handling being hit in a real fight, if you've been there and done that, it's like riding a bike, you'll won't forget the feeling or how to react, providing you're not K.O'd of course!, lol.

 

[The Kai]

Oddly when i worked with the Muay Thai Guys, almost never did they spar hard. insted of winning a ego match in the gym-they waited for a money match before risking themselves

I hear ya about getting older. However I gots a new shodan that needs a little seasoning, so till I get him over, well, himself...
Todd

 

[Karazenpo]

Oddly when i worked with the Muay Thai Guys, almost never did they spar hard. insted of winning a ego match in the gym-they waited for a money match before risking themselves

I hear ya about getting older. However I gots a new shodan that needs a little seasoning, so till I get him over, well, himself...
Todd

I know what you're saying Todd, but that's what you have your protege's for, lol, in other words, in police philosophy, we send the 'junior man in first', lol, not really, I'm only kidd'n but it sounds good, doesn't it?, lol.

 

[The Kai]

When we test I send a couple of under belts in first (like a picolar'o). Then I get to test thier endurance. in this situation I want it to be clear that I start on a equal base, if that makes sense

Todd

 

[KenpoTess]

Mod. Note.

Please, keep the conversation on topic..
If you like we can split the thread into two topics, one the original posting and another on the current Sparring topic.

Thanks,

~Tess
-MT S.Moderator-

 

[The Kai]

What was the original topic?:idunno:

Todd

 

[Karazenpo]

What was the original topic?:idunno:

Todd

Todd, I don't think the original poster (Todd Monis) wants to even go there, LOL, I'm sure he's happy it's off topic after all the heat that came down on him!, lol. Right, Todd (Monis)?

 

[BlackCatBonz]

So you spar full contact with out pads on and no target restrictions (like kyokushikai)? Just trying to see how different styles spar.

Todd

no...its not sparring like kumite.....i guess you could classify it as bogyo waza, defense tricks?
for example.....uke attacks and tori defends against the attack (most simple explanation), the difference being that, it's not a vehicle for practicing a technique....uke attacks with intent to do damage and maintains that attack until tori stops it. hence the injuries or shots that i mentioned.
a lot of schools might do this type of self defense training but the difference being uke's intent, simply because its meant as a training drill.
uke attacks......tori ends it as soon as possible.....much like defending in a street situation. this also gives the pratitioner the experience of working from both an attack and defense position.....and defense doesnt always win.
i know a lot of systems say they do this.......but not that i have ever witnessed. its the way i was taught by my first kempo teacher......one of the similarities between my original training and what i did in kosho is that you always work from a dynamic standpoint, meaning, uke doesnt throw one attack while tori does his thing....its continuous.
not too many students stuck around for this training simply because "it wasnt fun"......you're learning war, not ballet.

shawn

 

[The Kai]

So basically it's full contact, everthing legat all targets open sparring?


Todd

 

[BlackCatBonz]

So basically it's full contact, everthing legat all targets open sparring?


Todd

yes i guess you could say that......but i wouldnt use the word sparring....
when i hear that word, i think of a contest.....i know we can get into the semantics of the word contest, but lets say that contest is for sport. when i hear the word spar....i think of sport.
the type of training im talking about is purely for self defense. yes its full contact, yes all targets are open.
the mindset of tori has to be this though....as i was taught in kempo, the goal of tori is to end the confrontation with as little pain and suffering done to the uke as possible, so conscience has to be your guide. at the same time you're protecting yourself from harm. i hope this makes sense.

shawn

 

[The Kai]

Actually a contest means a struggle for victory among rivals, could be a sport or could be anything that pits individual at odds.

I guess my fear would be if i let my senior ranks go "all out" with foll power leg kicks, full bore punch to face, Throws and elbows would be the high rate of injuries and disabling long term effects. I emphasis a degree of control when working live. To date I've sparredand trained for full contact kickboxing, bare knuckle (kyokushinkai) and semi contact. Man, i gotta tell you to cripple someone on the mat going all out - no rules all targets Wow the cure is worse than the cause. keep me on the sidelines

todd

 

[BlackCatBonz]

this is why i mentioned protecting uke and yourself from harm. i know that if i punch someone in the face it is going to do damage. i guess its too hard to describe....you seem to be getting a picture of 2 people going b**ls to the wall beating on each other....and that is not what it is about. can you get hit? yes. can you get hurt? yes.
should you be hitting to maim if you're tori? no. should you be hitting to hurt if you're uke? yes.....otherwise tori isnt learning anything except a false sense of his abilities when he gets tapped on the chin?
when learning self defense there has to be some sense of danger.....otherwise you're just kidding yourself and your students.
a cop can learn what is like to have a gun pulled on him......but when he is on the street and its done for real, the emotion of the situation makes a drastic change.
ive seen people do really careless things when training with a dummy blade.....you put a real blade in their hand and their whole devil may care attitude goes out the window.
i hope this further explains.

shawn

 

[Karazenpo]

this is why i mentioned protecting uke and yourself from harm. i know that if i punch someone in the face it is going to do damage. i guess its too hard to describe....you seem to be getting a picture of 2 people going b**ls to the wall beating on each other....and that is not what it is about. can you get hit? yes. can you get hurt? yes.
should you be hitting to maim if you're tori? no. should you be hitting to hurt if you're uke? yes.....otherwise tori isnt learning anything except a false sense of his abilities when he gets tapped on the chin?
when learning self defense there has to be some sense of danger.....otherwise you're just kidding yourself and your students.
a cop can learn what is like to have a gun pulled on him......but when he is on the street and its done for real, the emotion of the situation makes a drastic change.
ive seen people do really careless things when training with a dummy blade.....you put a real blade in their hand and their whole devil may care attitude goes out the window.
i hope this further explains.

shawn

Shawn, I couldn't have said it better, my hat goes off to you and the 'cop' analogy is soooooo..... true! Happy Holidays!, "Joe"

 

[The Kai]

Balck Cat
So it's not treally sparring but a randori type of practice, correct?
Have you ever sparred or entered a tournament?
Todd

 

[BlackCatBonz]

ive sparred plenty of times during class.......but i have asthma so it really limits me from doing really long sparring sessions. i like it.....but i must admit, its not my strongpoint at all. ive never entered a tournament simply because of my breathing factor.....id like to do kata's in a tournament setting....but again i only do traditional kata, most of the tournaments ive seen always have those really wacky acrobatic kata's. and while i am wacky, im certainly no acrobat.

shawn

 

[The Kai]

Therw will always be a diffference btween sparring in class and competing, The focus and intensity shift dramatically.
Randori is a neat way to practice as is sparring.