It's time to promote the Kenpo Grand Masters

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

NO! When I train BJJ I do not poke eyes or grab testicles. I don't kick or punch either. In return, they don't drop me on my head, don't break my arm, don't choke me to the point of unconsciousness and don't break my neck.

I am not arguing that BJJ is a better style. I am only arguing that the training method is more realistic because all techniques are practiced against a resisting partner instead of a cooperating one and that the advanced ranking is more skill based due to BJJ's competitive focus.

 

[roryneil]

Now THAT I can't comment on as I am not a higher lever belt
However, doesn't that fall on you and other BB's to get together and pound on eachother a bit?

 

[Sigung86]

Originally posted by Old Fat Kenpoka
NO! When I train BJJ I do not poke eyes or grab testicles. I don't kick or punch either. In return, they don't drop me on my head, don't break my arm, don't choke me to the point of unconsciousness and don't break my neck.

I am not arguing that BJJ is a better style. I am only arguing that the training method is more realistic because all techniques are practiced against a resisting partner instead of a cooperating one and that the advanced ranking is more skill based due to BJJ's competitive focus.

OFK,

The reason your training is more "realistic" is that it is applied principles of the art you are learning. Would seem silly to be learning one art, like say, baking, and training in a manner that is suited to make you a painter.

Your path is good for you. It is recovering your lost passion and vigor... Some older guys go for Corvettes, gold chains and hair pieces. :rofl:

However, your training methods, in no way, denigrate or make Kenpo training any less effective. Tools are tools... You train with the tools that are pertinent to the task at hand, and you become effective.

Like someone else said, BJJ is what it is... Kenpo is what it is, JKD is what it is ... ad infinitum, ad nauseum. You pick a path... You drop your rank in Kenpo and go where no one knows your are an amazing third degree Black Belt... And there you are... You are emminently happy getting your butt kicked. That is, as I said, cool for you... Probably not for everyone else.

If you were not able to keep the fire alive in what you were doing.... The fault lies in the man, and not the system.

Dan

 

[lonekimono]

OK rock and roll,, and i think roll is the word to use here.
as far as any style (what one is better) i don't play that
i LOVE kenpo and it is KENPO that saved my life alot of times on the street and thats how i feel about the whole thing.:asian:

 

[brianhunter]

Originally posted by Old Fat Kenpoka
I am only arguing that the training method is more realistic because all techniques are practiced against a resisting partner instead of a cooperating one and that the advanced ranking is more skill based due to BJJ's competitive focus.

You can train Kenpo "dynamically" as well, doesnt hurt to take a punch or two if you have a good partner, follow up smack your partner around with the other hand if he isnt checking his zones.....If it is a punch to the face make it a punch to the face, A lot of kenpoist train this way and dont go the "air kenpo" route. Technique lines and a good partner to "bang" on should be done dynamically. Lots of people do it
BJJ is as awsome ground fighting art in a controlled environment, they do train hard......but if someone is going to try to get me to the ground they are gonna pay for it, Ill be damned if I end up on the ground. I learned how to do this in kenpo and have put it into application on the streets. They both are what you make of them as is any art it is what it is I guess, but I have a serious issue with writing kenpo off because they dont have "realistic" training methods, if the training method isnt realistic I think kenpo has several tools to make it so.

Happy Hunting

 

[lonekimono]

Way to go hunter i like how you put it, you get a 10 from me
and i want to say that in kenpo we do the same stuff, it's just to bad that this person don't see it, oh well to bad!!!

goodnight john boy

 

[webpage20022003]

Originally posted by Old Fat Kenpoka
webpage20022003: What's with all the hate man?

As far as getting beaten during training, don't you ever get pointed when you spar? Don't you ever spar against someone much much more proficient than you? Doesn't that person kick your ***? Isn't it fun sparring with someone really really good?

it is my bad. Sorry. No bad feeling between us. Just try to reply to another poster. No implication or anything.

to tell you the truth, i like to spar with somebody who is better than me because i want to be good.

agree with everything you said right here. You made your point, man

 

[webpage20022003]

Originally posted by lonekimono
it's just to bad that this person don't see it, oh well to bad!!!

i have to disagree with you about this. Old fat kenpo has his point which is understandable.

I'm sure he is not the first one who does this. The fact that he mentions in his post is well-taken.

he does what it is necessary for him.

for you to say that he doesn't see it is ABSOLUTELY WRONG. If he doesn't see it, he doesn't have to go to take BJJ or another Arts and simply sticks to Kenpo for years.

It is important to ask ourselve if this art works for me or not during our training. You can't accept or learn thing BLINDLY and BELIEVE that it will work on the STREET.

i don't know how OLD FAT KENPO trains or practices his art and i certainly don't know how his school conducts its teaching. Therefore, i can't comment about it. BUT i will say this

Do not try to tell him that he doesn't see thing. I don't know your art much but Hopefully, i will be able to have a training session in a future so that you can tell me whether your art works for me or anybody yet.

Perhaps, we can spar a little bit. I do not challenge you. I just want to put this quote


Bruce Lee said "you should be able to defend yourself; it doesn't matter what art you take"

 

[lonekimono]

you want to spar with me???? why ? what's that about?
i don't do that,don't need to i did all that stuff in the late 60's and the 70's and buy the way i DID NOT SAY ANYTHING about the way he trained!!!! but because YOU don't KNOW KENPO than YOU also don't understand for if you did kenpo, than you would know what i'm talking about, :asian:

open your eyes,and if you still don't see, than try your mine

 

[D.Cobb]

Originally posted by Old Fat Kenpoka
NO! When I train BJJ I do not poke eyes or grab testicles. I don't kick or punch either. In return, they don't drop me on my head, don't break my arm, don't choke me to the point of unconsciousness and don't break my neck.

I am not arguing that BJJ is a better style. I am only arguing that the training method is more realistic because all techniques are practiced against a resisting partner instead of a cooperating one and that the advanced ranking is more skill based due to BJJ's competitive focus.

Whilst you make some valid points, it has been my experience that these guys like to start on the ground.

My question is, how would they get you there, if your Kenpo is any good?

When I learnt American Kenpo, I was taught, "Going to ground is not an option. "

Obviously, you may end up there, but BJJ teaches you how to stay there. Also as far as they are concerned, it is impossible to defend against multiple attackers. If you don't think this is true, then check out some Black Belt mags from the early '90s. One of the Gracies used to write a column for the mag, and it was almost his catch cry.

BJJ is a sport system. You will find some that can make it work as a combat art, but the same can be said for TKD.

--Dave

:asian:

 

[lonekimono]

Way to go dave :asian:

 

[webpage20022003]

Originally posted by lonekimono
YOU don't KNOW KENPO than YOU also don't understand for if you did kenpo, than you would know what i'm talking about, :asian:

Huh? I think that Kempo is a KICK *** art. Learning it and loving it.

So far, i only have 1 art: KEMPO

i don't know kenpo????? if i don't know kenpo, neither do you. Let put it that way. It's between you and me.

 

[webpage20022003]

Originally posted by D.Cobb
Whilst you make some valid points, it has been my experience that these guys like to start on the ground.

My question is, how would they get you there, if your Kenpo is any good?

When I learnt American Kenpo, I was taught, "Going to ground is not an option. "

Obviously, you may end up there, but BJJ teaches you how to stay there. Also as far as they are concerned, it is impossible to defend against multiple attackers. If you don't think this is true, then check out some Black Belt mags from the early '90s. One of the Gracies used to write a column for the mag, and it was almost his catch cry.

BJJ is a sport system. You will find some that can make it work as a combat art, but the same can be said for TKD.

--Dave

:asian:

i watch WFC a few times and have to say it is stupid by looking at the way they fight. You see Kempo , Karate GUYS end up using BJJ in WFC. They try to do 1 thing: take another guy down on the ground.

if you train Kempo and declare that you are a kempo guy, why do you need to use BJJ to win the match?? Can you just use your KEMPO or karate to win your match ???

have to agree with what you said here. You can't do multiple attacks on the ground

if your kempo is any good??? it is an excellence question.

If it works, why learn another art?
that's my 2 cents

 

[lonekimono]

Look webpage it seem's like you have some problem's and as far as i not knowing kempo/kenpo you do the math,
and as this is between you and i?? i don't have time for this .:asian:



ps maybe if you would use your real name than maybe i would talk more.

 

[Michael Billings]

I know this will sound somewhat harsh, and I am inviting getting slammed, but hey, I am getting tired of some of the comments that keep coming out of webpage20022003. Condescending remarks, assumptions regarding abilities, and a superior attitude, mixed with a lot of "oh yeah? Prove it" in almost every post. OK for a while, but it is getting old.

Incendiary or judgmental remarks seem very common for "webpage20022003", along with a somewhat immature perspective regarding other Arts. I support his perspective or the questions he raises ... I have the answers for me and my students and am willing to look outside my comfort zone, as are a lot of us, even if we don't agree with his sweeping judgmental statements.

He on the other hand does not appear to be looking for a dialogue, but rather a disagreement. May I refer you to KenpoNet, an equally good forum with lots of Seniors in Kenpo, who like a good disagreement, so long as it leads somewhere.


Left over Right

 

[XtremeJ_AKKI]

Originally posted by webpage20022003
i don't know kenpo????? if i don't know kenpo, neither do you. Let put it that way. It's between you and me.

I'm just curious ( actually been curious about this for over a week now ), just how old are you, and how long have you been active in the martial arts?

 

[XtremeJ_AKKI]

Originally posted by Michael Billings
I know this will sound somewhat harsh, and I am inviting getting slammed, but hey, I am getting tired of some of the comments that keep coming out of webpage20022003. Condescending remarks, assumptions regarding abilities, and a superior attitude, mixed with a lot of "oh yeah? Prove it" in almost every post. OK for a while, but it is getting old.

Incendiary or judgmental remarks seem very common for "webpage20022003", along with a somewhat immature perspective regarding other Arts. I support his perspective or the questions he raises ... I have the answers for me and my students and am willing to look outside my comfort zone, as are a lot of us, even if we don't agree with his sweeping judgmental statements.

I was waiting for someone to say it. Thank you Mr. Billings for stepping up to the plate ( cause I was tired of doing it :rofl: ).

 

[lonekimono]

Hey Mike thank you, this person won't PUT his name in here, but he will PUT people down .
you know there are alot of other things we can talk about other than giving him the time of day.

oh one more thing ,,webpage if you are near the state of NEW JERSEY than please be my guess stop by my school and i will let you jump in the BEGINNER CLASS that's white to yellow, and don't worry about paying just you stopping by is payment.


ps have a good day,,,oh Mike give me a call at the school
856-931-0030

 

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

I started this thread to question Kenpo's ranking system, to question our ideal of perfection, and to question our excessive reverence of our own dogma.

I never wanted this to degenerate into the bashing of any individual's martial competence or achievement. We may not like everyone else's attitude or communication style, but let's try to exercise the self-discipline we have learned through our art and keep the discussion centered on the positive ideas generated by this discussion thread. Thank you.

 

[webpage20022003]

Originally posted by Michael Billings

I am getting tired of some of the comments that keep coming out of webpage20022003. Condescending remarks, assumptions regarding abilities, and a superior attitude, mixed with a lot of "oh yeah? Prove it" in almost every post. OK for a while, but it is getting old.

I need to remind you about this. The statement , itself, doesn't have a feeling and only you , human being, have feeling.

We have ONLY 2 choices when looking at other opinions: REPLY or not REPLY at all. Why do you begin to have third choice? getting pissed.???????

You can say whatever you want about my statement because everybody has the same freedom. FREEDOM OF SPEECH.

As far as i see, you haven't show me any of my past statements support your claim *bad attitude and bad assumption*. Why don't you begin to show me your support statement???

Saying without proofs is MEANINGLESS.

I have learned from my instructor that we have to learn to use our head more than our techniques because you don't win in a battle by using techniques.

Incendiary or judgmental remarks seem very common for "webpage20022003", along with a somewhat immature perspective regarding other Arts. I support his perspective or the questions he raises ... I have the answers for me and my students and am willing to look outside my comfort zone, as are a lot of us, even if we don't agree with his sweeping judgmental statements.

you brought up "immature" thing in the past and Just for my curiosity , What is your definition of "immature" and "assumption"?

when you give me your definition, i will be able to respond and we willl finish *immature* thing one for ALL here.

Remember: it is OK to argue but it is NOT OK to fight

He on the other hand does not appear to be looking for a dialogue, but rather a disagreement. May I refer you to KenpoNet, an equally good forum with lots of Seniors in Kenpo, who like a good disagreement, so long as it leads somewhere.
Left over Right

what is the point of living when you live in a society where everybody agrees in everything?

since we agree and accept what other say, why bother to have a forum to discuss a variety of issues????

disagreement is not actually a bad thing at ALL. It develops our intellectual and help other understand ourselve and issues we discuss BETTER

those WHO don't like disagreement will always DO and ACCEPT what other say. People also don't like disagreement because they CAN'T simply argue.

In another word, they CAN'T think something to counter other.

let me repeat my above sentence: it is OK to argue but it is NOT OK to fight.