I'd modify that slightly to say that if rank equals ability, every 3rd dan can beat every 2nd dan more often than not. If rank were an re-evaluated thing, that would be possible (in other words, rank would indicate current ability). Rank has never, in my experience, been used that way. Everywhere I've been, it indicated highest level of achievement, even when it was meant to (mostly) indicate ability.
If the first person is naturally athletic, and the second struggles with coordination, the second may have worked harder and achieved more to get there. More to the point, if both actually meet the requirements for the rank, then I'm not sure I see any issue with both receiving the rank. You seem to be asserting that the mindless grace is what "should" be part of the requirements for nidan in this particular system. If it's not a stated/understood requirement, then does it matter, and how much?
But you say here that they passed the proficiency bar for testing. That means they've met the requirements for that rank. I agree that this doesn't mean they're ready for a real-world altercation, but that doesn't mean they haven't met the rank standards...it just means that's not what the rank means.
That depends upon the 5th kyu, too, though. If the nidan is barely a nidan (met the requirements, but barely), or perhaps is aging and not physically what they once were, then they face a vigorous, aggressive, and athletic 5th kyu, it's not unreasonable that the 5th kyu has a chance there. Now, if a nidan (absent age and one-off honorary promotions) typically has problems handling 5th kyu students, that's a different matter.
This is where I get into "rank isn't necessarily about fighting ability". As an instructor, your ability to teach (usually including your understanding of the principles) - your ability to help others do - is far more important than your ability to do. That's why an aging instructor can still be very valuable, even if he's well past his physical prime and cannot do some things he teaches. And at some point, ranks should probably reflect the changing priorities. Up to a point, I like for rank to indicate specific physical ability (with some allowance for different starting points). Beyond that point, I want to see continued improvement, effort, and understanding. Those will come with some increases in physical ability to fight, but that might be offset by what's lost to age, for instance. Where that change should be depends upon the curriculum and the aims of the school, but I think instructors should make it a conscious choice.
That latter idea is something I've toyed with in the past. I tried to figure out a way to offer rank in NGA (technical rank for the core 50 classical techniques), rank for free sparring ability, and maybe weapons-related rank. The idea was just what you're referring to: someone might excel in one area and be limited in another, or might just only want to study one. Belt rank would have either been their NGA rank, their highest earned rank, or some composite rank. If I'd done the composite rank, there'd be some indicator of what areas they'd "qualified" in - shoulder patches or something showing areas they'd met some high standard in. If I had a larger program, it might have been worth figuring out how to handle that, but it just seemed like too much to bother with for my few students at a time.as i read thru these last posts i feel as a society and martial community we expect ranking to express more than it has the ability to do so. as a result the meaning of rank is quite encompassing and fluid.
i have been thinking about how to give recognition that matches the meaning behind the award. one option was a very defined meaning for the ranks and not everyone will get every rank. the colors of the belts will not be a linear progression. so a red belt will signify a warrior someone who can apply their art in combat. a black belt would signify someone who has a academic and full understanding of the material perhaps someone who is a good teacher.
the second thought would be to have military like award medals. so if someone was a full contact competitor he would get a certain medal, where as someone who takes a more spiritual path would get a different medal or some type of recognition that everyone in the organization would be able to identify and know what it signifies. this takes the place of a belt having to mean multiple things and could be a sole marker of the material one is working on and seniority. the only problem i have with some kind of medal system is how to display them while in class.
That's an interesting concept. In your hypothetical system, would you want an indicator somehow for students to know which parts each person had earned their rank in? And would you do something different if someone ranked in every area of the system?
Unless you know the starting point for each individual student, and their medical / mental / physical challenges... I don't think you can. I am working with a guy right now, that when he came in, he had done absolutely nothing in his life that resembled athletics or physical work at all. He has a degree, and works in the educational field at a school. When you get to know him, he has some mental and physical challenges, that are not readily apparent. When he first came, he could stand on the mat casually... I could mark an X on the floor with tape, and ask him to put his left foot on the X. It would take him 6 or 7 tries to get his left foot on the X. He comes regularly to class and we keep working with him. He is slowly learning, and slowly progressing. It would be very easy to come in and watch the class and look at the goofy dork over there and assume he needs to take it more seriously, or do his homework outside of class. They would miss the amount of effort and homework he has done, to get to where he is. The point is that different people have different challenges to overcome to gain physical fitness, to gain flexibility, to gain balance or strength or coordination or timing, or any one of the traits. I have found that it is very easy to snap judge someone... yet very hard to correctly judge them... especially without knowing them. A guy like him, I don't think will ever make our katas look smooth or effortless... or maybe not even combat ready. But, if he gets to the point where he can perform all the katas successfully, I know it will represent quite a bit more work than it would for the "average" person.
I have seen many black belts, from many styles, get into the octagon at get demolished, regardless of the standards held by their ranking boards. I have likewise seen successful MMA fighters get jumped in parking lots or convenience stores and get hospitalized by completely untrained thugs. But then some of those guys that got owned in the octagon where decorated special forces guys with combat experience...
That works well when the disciplines are separate like that (a friend with an NGA/BJJ school does that - there's a mass changing-of-belts between classes). In my curriculum (in its current state) they aren't separated, so I'd be doing something closer to the idea you posited earlier. Maybe someday it'll be worth me figuring out how to do.
Agreed. One thing that occurs is using belt stripes. So, perhaps 4 stripes on the belt, with each denoting level in a given area. Then the belts look like @drop bear’s gi.
