Credentialing

[Michele123]

Agreed. One thing that occurs is using belt stripes. So, perhaps 4 stripes on the belt, with each denoting level in a given area. Then the belts look like @drop bear’s gi.

I’m following this with interest. As a hobby seamstress, what about a belt in a baseline. Color (white?) with pathways for threading smaller belts through the length of the belt. Effectively creating horizontal stripes. Depending on the thickness of the stripes, could maybe fit three on a belt. Top stripe could be striking, middle for grappling, bottom for sparring or that sort of thing. That way, one could level up in one area at a time.

it would still have to be no thicker than a normal belt after all the stripes were in. Stripes would have to be changed easily and quickly but not come out on their own. Now I want some time to go create a proof of concept...


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[hoshin1600]

I’m following this with interest. As a hobby seamstress, what about a belt in a baseline. Color (white?) with pathways for threading smaller belts through the length of the belt. Effectively creating horizontal stripes. Depending on the thickness of the stripes, could maybe fit three on a belt. Top stripe could be striking, middle for grappling, bottom for sparring or that sort of thing. That way, one could level up in one area at a time.

it would still have to be no thicker than a normal belt after all the stripes were in. Stripes would have to be changed easily and quickly but not come out on their own. Now I want some time to go create a proof of concept...


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you should think about creating a patent for this concept before someone steals it.
i really like the idea, but i am concerned on how durable the belt would be.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I’m following this with interest. As a hobby seamstress, what about a belt in a baseline. Color (white?) with pathways for threading smaller belts through the length of the belt. Effectively creating horizontal stripes. Depending on the thickness of the stripes, could maybe fit three on a belt. Top stripe could be striking, middle for grappling, bottom for sparring or that sort of thing. That way, one could level up in one area at a time.

it would still have to be no thicker than a normal belt after all the stripes were in. Stripes would have to be changed easily and quickly but not come out on their own. Now I want some time to go create a proof of concept...


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Okay, that's far more intricate than I was imagining - and even more like Drop Bear's gi!

 

[oftheherd1]

But you say here that they passed the proficiency bar for testing. That means they've met the requirements for that rank. I agree that this doesn't mean they're ready for a real-world altercation, but that doesn't mean they haven't met the rank standards...it just means that's not what the rank means.

...

So then, should we be discussing and quantifying standards more?

That said, there is logic to your statement in bold type.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

So then, should we be discussing and quantifying standards more?

That said, there is logic to your statement in bold type.

Possibly. If that's what we want. Or, perhaps, we should just accept that ranks (at least beyond a certain point) are somewhat subjective because of the mix of factors taken into account.

 

[oftheherd1]

Possibly. If that's what we want. Or, perhaps, we should just accept that ranks (at least beyond a certain point) are somewhat subjective because of the mix of factors taken into account.

I am uncomfortable with the idea at lower belts, but I think it is fairly common at the higher belts. It's just the two arts I studied, at the time I studied them, had certain standards and if you waned promotion to learn more, you first had to meet the lower promotion's standards.

I also understand the idea that there may be people of higher age and lesser physical abilities who shame most other students with their steadfast devotion to their desire to learn, and understand they must work harder, and do so. Do you hold them to the same standards in the context of running a business?

Things I am glad I don't have to deal with.

 

[hoshin1600]

my biggest problem is with the expectation people have, that if i put my time in i will get my black belt or my 5th black belt or 8th. we as a community over the years have established the expectation that rank is attainable by everyone. so we have to live with the ramifications of that. the converse side would be that most people do not achieve a certain level of rank. which means as an instructor you have to explain to John Doe that the rank he has is probably going to be as high as he can go.. "sorry Johnny the rest of the class will be testing ..but frankly your not that good, and probably never will be"
which is the greater evil?

 

[Michele123]

my biggest problem is with the expectation people have, that if i put my time in i will get my black belt or my 5th black belt or 8th. we as a community over the years have established the expectation that rank is attainable by everyone. so we have to live with the ramifications of that. the converse side would be that most people do not achieve a certain level of rank. which means as an instructor you have to explain to John Doe that the rank he has is probably going to be as high as he can go.. "sorry Johnny the rest of the class will be testing ..but frankly your not that good, and probably never will be"
which is the greater evil?

I like the way my old school did it. There was testing monthly but only a few people tested each time (those who were ready). So there was never an instance where the whole class was testing except one or two people. Everyone was on their own schedule, moving at their own pace.


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[oftheherd1]

my biggest problem is with the expectation people have, that if i put my time in i will get my black belt or my 5th black belt or 8th. we as a community over the years have established the expectation that rank is attainable by everyone. so we have to live with the ramifications of that. the converse side would be that most people do not achieve a certain level of rank. which means as an instructor you have to explain to John Doe that the rank he has is probably going to be as high as he can go.. "sorry Johnny the rest of the class will be testing ..but frankly your not that good, and probably never will be"
which is the greater evil?

I looked but couldn't find the rating for 'very difficult situation.'

 

[Michele123]

you should think about creating a patent for this concept before someone steals it.
i really like the idea, but i am concerned on how durable the belt would be.

Durability would depend on materials used as well as type of stitching. Having moving components would make durability more difficult but not impossible.

I have no idea how I’d go about creating a patent nor if my idea is even any good.


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[hoshin1600]

I looked but couldn't find the rating for 'very difficult situation.'

im sure you had a good point but you lost me with the wording. i am not sure what your trying to say.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I am uncomfortable with the idea at lower belts, but I think it is fairly common at the higher belts. It's just the two arts I studied, at the time I studied them, had certain standards and if you waned promotion to learn more, you first had to meet the lower promotion's standards.

I also understand the idea that there may be people of higher age and lesser physical abilities who shame most other students with their steadfast devotion to their desire to learn, and understand they must work harder, and do so. Do you hold them to the same standards in the context of running a business?

Things I am glad I don't have to deal with.

Agreed. I can't imagine there'd normally be much reason for me to start that transition (to including some subjective "contribution and effort" factors) earlier than maybe purple belt (which I expect to take 4 years or so). Where it makes sense to do so probably varies by curriculum organization and objective.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

my biggest problem is with the expectation people have, that if i put my time in i will get my black belt or my 5th black belt or 8th. we as a community over the years have established the expectation that rank is attainable by everyone. so we have to live with the ramifications of that. the converse side would be that most people do not achieve a certain level of rank. which means as an instructor you have to explain to John Doe that the rank he has is probably going to be as high as he can go.. "sorry Johnny the rest of the class will be testing ..but frankly your not that good, and probably never will be"
which is the greater evil?

I think there's not a great answer in this. Part of making it better goes in explaining (before there's an issue) what rank "means". This is one of the reasons some folks like not having rank, and part of the reason I decided to just end ranks at BB (no dan ranks, in reality).

 

[Gerry Seymour]

im sure you had a good point but you lost me with the wording. i am not sure what your trying to say.

He's talking about the "funny, useful, dislike" ratings.

 

[TSDTexan]

I think there's not a great answer in this. Part of making it better goes in explaining (before there's an issue) what rank "means". This is one of the reasons some folks like not having rank, and part of the reason I decided to just end ranks at BB (no dan ranks, in reality).

This goes back to my classical argument against the word Rank... and preference for the word Grade. it's also interesting that we give 8 dan rank, and you can receive after testing titles like renshi, and shihan... but there are no stripes on the black belt. just a numbered certificate from the head of the organization for your dan grade.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

This goes back to my classical argument against the word Rank... and preference for the word Grade.

I don't see much of a difference. IME, they are used mostly interchangeably, except that "grading in an art" usually refers to earning a dan rank.

 

[TSDTexan]

some put a lot of emphasis on rank politically

 

[wab25]

This reminded me of one of the guest instructors I was fortunate enough to take a few classes with. Bob Kunkel came out to one of our clinics, with his sensei. I got to take classes where each were teaching, and Bob showed up to take a class from another instructor at the clinic and I had the opportunity to work with him there as well. I don't have the challenges he has or that many of his students have... but he was still able to teach me quite a bit, in a very short time.

Rank is about a lot of things. Dropping some guy on the street or in the ring are just two...

 

[oftheherd1]

im sure you had a good point but you lost me with the wording. i am not sure what your trying to say.

Sorry, I was trying to be clever. I was referring to the ratings, as @gpseymour said.

 

[TSDTexan]

This reminded me of one of the guest instructors I was fortunate enough to take a few classes with. Bob Kunkel came out to one of our clinics, with his sensei. I got to take classes where each were teaching, and Bob showed up to take a class from another instructor at the clinic and I had the opportunity to work with him there as well. I don't have the challenges he has or that many of his students have... but he was still able to teach me quite a bit, in a very short time.

Rank is about a lot of things. Dropping some guy on the street or in the ring are just two...

damn it. you made me cry hard.
Bob is a hero's hero.
a 10 dan if I ever saw one.