Things that are ridiculous in Martial Arts

[drop bear]

You’re missing something here. You’re equating a single or relatively few strikes to the repetition of CPR compressions. The issue with CPR isn’t one or two or a few more compressions; the problem with it is many compressions at a very fast pace. You’re supposed to do compressions at a rate of 100-120 per minute, or about 2 per second. And you’re doing many sets of 30 compressions. That bone fragment is going to travel around and damage anything in its path every time there’s a compression. A bunch of micro trauma repeated over and over again very quickly. A punch will have more damage than a single compression, but it’s not cutting your insides a couple hundred times.

Killing someone with a punch to the xiphoid process is severely overblown. Sure it could happen, but it’s quite unlikely. If I have the opening, I’ll take it. It’s a great target because it hurts like a mofo. But I’m not walking around thinking I’ll drop and/or kill anyone out there with one punch to it. Not even close.

And gravity is doing the work.

Otherwise I have very slowly been developing the ability to drop guys with body shots.

But it is such a nuanced strike that it is really hard to make it work.

So I have thrown thousands of body shots at people and the worst I have done is break a guys ribs.

 

[Dirty Dog]

I would say it is competitive sparring, but sparring is not actually fighting. It is an exercise more than anything.

But I do agree with your statement about "what type of fight"

Sparring is mutually agreed combat with an accepted set of rules.

Fighting may or may not have rules. And those rules may be different for each participant. I've certainly been in fights in the ER in which my rules didn't allow me to maim the other person, while they were not limited.

 

[drop bear]

Well, they are sport fighters, not real fighters. Anyone can teach sport, it is for pretend and ego...not reality.

If there is a safety net...(This might shock you) it is not real combat. How can it be? There are rules.

But instead of repeating myself, there are threads where I have already debated this.

Look those up.

I have been in about a thousand real fights and only one guy ever died. (And he had a heart attack)

Ok. A lot of guys got maimed. One guy lost an eye, I saw a guy set on fire, we set dogs on people, I knew a guy who got jumped and was opened up from belly button to sternum with a set of chicken snips.(then got bashed again about three months later.)

But the concept is the same. You fight until you can't fight or they can't fight.

If you fight a guy, choke him out (which I have done) you can walk away, the ref can pull you up or you can murder the guy. There is no practical difference between the sport and life or death there.

You have either defended that choke or you haven't.

 

[drop bear]

I am not sure people get this idea. So this is Mike Tyson sparring.

Now it straight up doesn't matter the situation. If for some reason you walked up to him on the street with the intention of killing him. And he just sparred, and he had gloves and rules an all that stuff.

He hits you like that you will not be able to continue. No amount of street, no amount of bad intentions. Your body will not respond any more.

And that is all you need to do in a fight.

You get that. That's it you have won.

And these are conditioned fighters who have good defense.

You take a noob and throw him in there and you really should be concerned for their safety.

 

[Deleted member 34973]

I have been in about a thousand real fights and only one guy ever died. (And he had a heart attack)

Ok. A lot of guys got maimed. One guy lost an eye, I saw a guy set on fire, we set dogs on people, I knew a guy who got jumped and was opened up from belly button to sternum with a set of chicken snips.(then got bashed again about three months later.)

But the concept is the same. You fight until you can't fight or they can't fight.

If you fight a guy, choke him out (which I have done) you can walk away, the ref can pull you up or you can murder the guy. There is no practical difference between the sport and life or death there.

You have either defended that choke or you haven't.

You fight, in a real fight, until they are broken indefinitely or dead. That is my own personal experience. I have been stabbed twice, hit with bricks, 2×4 baseball bats, chairs, shot at and have been in just about every fighting scenario, one person and multiple fighters.

You fight untill they are broken, any empathy or sympathy can cost you your life.

This is the difference between reality and sport.

There are no rules in a real life situation. There is no agreement between the parties, just those you make up in your own head. And, that **** will get you killed.

I could list the horrible things that I have seen as well. But, all of those things, are what taught me the difference between sport and reality.

 

[drop bear]

You fight, in a real fight, until they are broken indefinitely or dead. That is my own personal experience. I have been stabbed twice, hit with bricks, 2×4 baseball bats, chairs, shot at and have been in just about every fighting scenario, one person and multiple fighters.

You fight untill they are broken, any empathy or sympathy can cost you your life.

This is the difference between reality and sport.

There are no rules in a real life situation. There is no agreement between the parties, just those you make up in your own head. And, that **** will get you killed.

I could list the horrible things that I have seen as well. But, all of those things, are what taught me the difference between sport and reality.

Why?

You really only need to stop them from being able to function. And as soon as they are not functional even a bit. It throws the advantage massively in your favor.


If they can't function they can't attack you.

It is a more efficient method.

 

[Buka]

You fight, in a real fight, until they are broken indefinitely or dead. That is my own personal experience. I have been stabbed twice, hit with bricks, 2×4 baseball bats, chairs, shot at and have been in just about every fighting scenario, one person and multiple fighters.

You fight untill they are broken, any empathy or sympathy can cost you your life.

This is the difference between reality and sport.

There are no rules in a real life situation. There is no agreement between the parties, just those you make up in your own head. And, that **** will get you killed.

I could list the horrible things that I have seen as well. But, all of those things, are what taught me the difference between sport and reality.

Man, that's awful! I hope you are no longer frequenting the places where you got stabbed, hit with bats, bricks, chairs etc.

 

[Gweilo]

Look at Mikes biomechanics, he strikes with every part of his body, sometimes he even has both feet off the floor for maximum impact, in the Bruno 1st fight, the finishing punch was a right hook to the body, followed by a right uppercut, in the slowmo you saw the effects of the punch, rippling down from Franks chin, to his ankles, you cannot defend that type of quality.,

 

[drop bear]

Look at Mikes biomechanics, he strikes with every part of his body, sometimes he even has both feet off the floor for maximum impact, in the Bruno 1st fight, the finishing punch was a right hook to the body, followed by a right uppercut, in the slowmo you saw the effects of the punch, rippling down from Franks chin, to his ankles, you cannot defend that type of quality.,

Yeah. If you get caught in that dynamic you are in a lot of trouble.

So in a fight you have about two seconds to pull a rabbit out of your hat or your night is over.

 

[Gweilo]

You say you have approx 1000 fights, that's 25 fights a year for 40 years, so if you started at 20 years old, that makes you 60 having 2 and a bit fights a month, sometimes I had 3 fights in a week end, and I guesstimate I have approx 300 fights under my belt and I am 49 over a 20 year period (only had a hand full the last 10 years) works out at 1 a month, how come you had so many fights.

 

[Deleted member 34973]

Man, that's awful! I hope you are no longer frequenting the places where you got stabbed, hit with bats, bricks, chairs etc.

I am no longer in those areas, life is he'll when you are a kid and homeless. No one gives a damn about you.

Break them or kill them. This is what you learn when faced with the reality of life.

Anything else, is wishful thinking.

 

[drop bear]

You say you have approx 1000 fights, that's 25 fights a year for 40 years, so if you started at 20 years old, that makes you 60 having 2 and a bit fights a month, sometimes I had 3 fights in a week end, and I guesstimate I have approx 300 fights under my belt and I am 49 over a 20 year period (only had a hand full the last 10 years) works out at 1 a month, how come you had so many fights.

I worked some bad areas. I would do 40 physical ejections a night and would fight about 5 to 10 of them. That was 5 nights a week. But technically it would be three heavy nights and three lighter ones.

Over about 5 years.

Otherwise I have been bouncing 20 years. But that was the main period.

So five fights a week is 260 a year I think. Over five years is 1300.

 

[Gweilo]

I worked some bad areas. I would do 40 physical ejections a night and would fight about 5 to 10 of them. That was 5 nights a week. But technically it would be three heavy nights and three lighter ones.

Over about 5 years.

Otherwise I have been bouncing 20 years. But that was the main period.

Oh dear, unfortunately bouncers in the uk have a rep for beating up drunk teenagers, 10 years there junior, I would hope that is different where you live, I remember a bouncer in the late 80's asked me to leave a club, I told him to make me, so he pulled a snooker ball in a sock out and tried to cave the side of my face in, he now walks with a limp, but I hope this is different where you are.

 

[dvcochran]

Great posts.

I don't include classroom sparring and such because there is a control medium. I do not know how many fights I had when I was in the Olympic and PKA circuits. They also were bound by rules so I can make the argument that they were not really a "fight". Even in the matches where I was really pissed off and wanted to physically injure the other guy I can draw a distinction. Did I want to win? Passionately. Did I want to hurt the other guy? Usually. Did I want to maim the other guy? No.
I am not sure I can enunciate this. Growing up, "fighting" was something we did for fun. At times it was even encouraged by parents, aunts and uncles. Getting a bruise or black eye was not that big of a deal. Someone got the better of you and would concede and go on. Never would you get crazy emotional and plot to kill the other person. It helped the maturation process from every angle, taught you how to control your emotions, and that what you say or how you say it can have ramifications.

As I grew older and started seeing more of the world I quickly realized not everyone had the same perspective. I remember being perplexed by people who got in to altercations or disagreements and just did not know how to handle themselves emotionally or physically. How some would let the most subtle things rattle them to the point of becoming irrational. How others would let themselves be dominated by the most minor of things. You see these dynamics a lot working in LE.

Having thought on this quite a bit, I don't think I can give a wholly inclusive definition of the word fight that has much descriptive value.

Sparring, rough housing, common wrestling (not Roman Greco) and such fall into the same category. There is an element of "fun" involved. There may (should) be a desire win. But the emotion is never to harm.

More than the local tournament level, competition fighting very much involves an emotional component. The will to compete at a high level and the desire to win demand it. Some express their emotions outwardly more than others.
Keeping this emotional component at a low level is something I used to struggle with in drills and classroom sparring.

For me this is the dividing line that ebbs into being a fight. Reasons for an altercation withstanding, it doesn't and hopefully never is with the intent to do mortal harm. This is a choice any seasoned Martial Artist's should be able to make in the moment. Anyone who has been in the ring understands two things; it is hard to knock someone out who is expecting you to try and injuries happen in a flash. You transfer this experience outside the ring and you understand how quickly great harm can be done.

When I was younger I usually had three distinct choices in a fight; I could play around and try to embarrass the other person, I could hurt the other person, or I could greatly harm or even kill the other person. I no longer have the first option so the gravity of a real altercation has greater magnitude from the start.

So what is a fight? I do not have a straight answer.

 

[Gweilo]

@dvcochran , the fight instinct is something that evolves as we get older, in the words of Gary Busy's charecter in point break, "young dumb and full of cum", when we are young we may have a reputation to up hold, and it may be the most important thing when we are young, but as we mature, the win instinct is still there, but we become reserved, no longer willing to destroy, win but, don't do to much harm, because the consequences start to bite home, we have others to consider, and as we reach middle age, we suddenly realise some things we can no longer do, so it becomes about survival.

 

[Buka]

I am no longer in those areas, life is he'll when you are a kid and homeless. No one gives a damn about you.

Break them or kill them. This is what you learn when faced with the reality of life.

Anything else, is wishful thinking.

My heart goes out to you, bro. I didn't realize your background. Not much worse than being homeless, except being homeless as a kid.

I'm glad you survived.

 

[Gweilo]

@drop bear , I did not mean to belittle yourself or your life experiences, I can only draw on my own, I was just curious as to the amount of fights you had, I thought I Had a few, and was curious to the number you had. I came from a small group of towns in the south east of England, where the bouncers where unprofessional.

 

[Buka]

Oh dear, unfortunately bouncers in the uk have a rep for beating up drunk teenagers, 10 years there junior, I would hope that is different where you live, I remember a bouncer in the late 80's asked me to leave a club, I told him to make me, so he pulled a snooker ball in a sock out and tried to cave the side of my face in, he now walks with a limp, but I hope this is different where you are.

I'm glad you survived, too.

Drunk teenagers. They are such a royal pain in the butt. But we were never misguided enough to be that way in public. Heck, at nineteen I worked the first time as a bouncer in a huge gin mill nightclub. Fortunately, there were dozens of us, I was the youngest.

So, I'm curious.....if you were bouncing now and ran into a nineteen year old drunken you.....how would that turn out?

 

[drop bear]

@drop bear , I did not mean to belittle yourself or your life experiences, I can only draw on my own, I was just curious as to the amount of fights you had, I thought I Had a few, and was curious to the number you had. I came from a small group of towns in the south east of England, where the bouncers where unprofessional.

Same. That bouncer ko was a guy I worked with.

It was the wild west there for a while.

The police basically blackballed us for a bit.

 

[drop bear]

Oh dear, unfortunately bouncers in the uk have a rep for beating up drunk teenagers, 10 years there junior, I would hope that is different where you live, I remember a bouncer in the late 80's asked me to leave a club, I told him to make me, so he pulled a snooker ball in a sock out and tried to cave the side of my face in, he now walks with a limp, but I hope this is different where you are.

We did beat up a lot of teenagers but then they would swing trolley poles at us.

That might have been one of the shopping centers I worked at.