Credentialing

[skribs]

I can sort of understand that I guess. But in the Hapkido I studied, what we were given was more of a memory jogger than a detailed description of a technique. I think that is why there are seldom any comments to techniques I try to describe. People just don't get it. But when you are taught it and then practice it, memory joggers can overcome some memory disconnects in how to do the technique. If you have something different, then maybe I can understand part of your instructor's concern. But most of the techniques I was taught simply cannot be learned from reading memory joggers.

It's not a lack of memory with the technique. It's about reading the direction of my enemy's power, or properly finding the pressure points. I have no problem remembering what the techniques themselves are. It's applying them I have trouble with.

 

[Balrog]

How do you go about finding out about a carpenter or a mason? Due diligence.
How do you go about finding out about a babysitter or a house sitter? Due diligence.
How do you go about finding out about an HAVC technician? Due diligence.
How do you go about finding out about a vehicle repair technician? Due diligence.
How do you go about finding out about...Whatever? Due diligence.
Buyer beware...It is incumbent on the buyer to use due diligence to find out about a martial arts instructor/school just as you would with most anything else you spend your money on.

Agreed, 100%. This is why I give prospects a month free instruction. It gives them time to get their feet wet, so to speak, and make an *informed* decision whether to train in our school.

 

[marques]

I have just discovered that in Portugal ALL instructors are going to need a certification (mandatory) and ONE organisation (or group of), per discipline, will be in charge of training the trainers and issuing the certificates. This ONE is chosen by a gov. dep. (IPDJ).

I can’t see it going into practice and I would hate to buy training and certification at the competitors.

Just another way of credentialing. But a good one??

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I have just discovered that in Portugal ALL instructors are going to need a certification (mandatory) and ONE organisation (or group of), per discipline, will be in charge of training the trainers and issuing the certificates. This ONE is chosen by a gov. dep. (IPDJ).

I can’t see it going into practice and I would hate to buy training and certification at the competitors.

Just another way of credentialing. But a good one??

So, some existing group is being selected in each discipline, and will be responsible for credentialing other branches of the same discipline?? Would that mean one (presumably the largest) Karate organization in Portugal would be responsible for credentialing others? Perhaps Shotokan will be credentialing Goju-ryu?

 

[JR 137]

I have just discovered that in Portugal ALL instructors are going to need a certification (mandatory) and ONE organisation (or group of), per discipline, will be in charge of training the trainers and issuing the certificates. This ONE is chosen by a gov. dep. (IPDJ).

I can’t see it going into practice and I would hate to buy training and certification at the competitors.

Just another way of credentialing. But a good one??

Seems like a recipe for disaster. Politics written all over it.

To the unknowing, it seems like a great idea. To the knowing, it just seems like more bad will come out of that than good. I understand and agree with making sure people have stuff like first aid, CPR, emergency action plans, child abuse and reporting regulations, and stuff like that. But there shouldn’t be anyone telling what a teacher can teach and how. I can see people targeting groups/organizations outside their own to corner the market.

 

[dvcochran]

I have just discovered that in Portugal ALL instructors are going to need a certification (mandatory) and ONE organisation (or group of), per discipline, will be in charge of training the trainers and issuing the certificates. This ONE is chosen by a gov. dep. (IPDJ).

I can’t see it going into practice and I would hate to buy training and certification at the competitors.

Just another way of credentialing. But a good one??

It should be interesting to follow. I am curious just how much the government will get involved. I would like to understand how they even got organized enough to create the mandate.

 

[marques]

So, some existing group is being selected in each discipline, and will be responsible for credentialing other branches of the same discipline?? Would that mean one (presumably the largest) Karate organization in Portugal would be responsible for credentialing others? Perhaps Shotokan will be credentialing Goju-ryu?

Asked myself the same question. It looks like one ‘shotokan’ organisation will dominate the other ‘shotokan’ only. There is already Shorinji Kempo and Lohan Tao (Kempo) on the list, so...

Which means everyone can get a name not yet on the list*, fulfil the requirements and monopolise this name/style?

*Página do IPDJ, I.P.

 

[marques]

Seems like a recipe for disaster. Politics written all over it.

To the unknowing, it seems like a great idea. To the knowing, it just seems like more bad will come out of that than good. I understand and agree with making sure people have stuff like first aid, CPR, emergency action plans, child abuse and reporting regulations, and stuff like that. But there shouldn’t be anyone telling what a teacher can teach and how. I can see people targeting groups/organizations outside their own to corner the market.

I still need to dig out a bit more, but I still did not find anything really specific to a style. If it is to cover ‘only’ pedogogy, physiology, ethics, nutrition, training planification... as I have found*, it could be very much the same programme to every one, given by an (or many) independent organisation(s). Basically, it is sport science. Will see where it goes...

*http://www.idesporto.pt/ficheiros/file/PNFT/FormcomplementarDC/RegFComplementar_DC-AMv2.pdf

 

[marques]

It should be interesting to follow. I am curious just how much the government will get involved. I would like to understand how they even got organized enough to create the mandate.

Basically, they set up requirements based on the size and credentials of the organisation: history, number and distribution of clubs, international recognition and number of instructors. The ‘best’ wins the monopoly.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Asked myself the same question. It looks like one ‘shotokan’ organisation will dominate the other ‘shotokan’ only. There is already Shorinji Kempo and Lohan Tao (Kempo) on the list, so...

Which means everyone can get a name not yet on the list*, fulfil the requirements and monopolise this name/style?

*Página do IPDJ, I.P.

That, at least, isn't as bad as it might have been. Since all someone has to do is declare a new style, I'm not sure it actually has any teeth, at all.

 

[dvcochran]

Basically, they set up requirements based on the size and credentials of the organisation: history, number and distribution of clubs, international recognition and number of instructors. The ‘best’ wins the monopoly.

Yes, sounds like a good ole boys network and may make it tougher for the smaller schools.

 

[marques]

That, at least, isn't as bad as it might have been. Since all someone has to do is declare a new style, I'm not sure it actually has any teeth, at all.

Agree.

But now imagine a different scenario. One organisation get the monopoly if ‘krav maga’, and there are 10 or more organisations teaching this. The leader of this organisation has been insulting any other org since ever and technically is a laugh.

Now everyone else needs to change name? Or must go to get the training and certs from the mean people? Could they still have Krav Maga as part of their new name and certify themselves? Or is it burocracy only and everything is going to be about the same?

It can become ugly...

 

[dvcochran]

Asked myself the same question. It looks like one ‘shotokan’ organisation will dominate the other ‘shotokan’ only. There is already Shorinji Kempo and Lohan Tao (Kempo) on the list, so...

Which means everyone can get a name not yet on the list*, fulfil the requirements and monopolise this name/style?

*Página do IPDJ, I.P.

It sounds impossible to include all styles under a given umbrella let alone getting everyone to want to play along. Are there fines and levy's for not conforming.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Agree.

But now imagine a different scenario. One organisation get the monopoly if ‘krav maga’, and there are 10 or more organisations teaching this. The leader of this organisation has been insulting any other org since ever and technically is a laugh.

Now everyone else needs to change name? Or must go to get the training and certs from the mean people? Could they still have Krav Maga as part of their new name and certify themselves? Or is it burocracy only and everything is going to be about the same?

It can become ugly...

Agreed - where the name matters for marketing (Krav Maga, BJJ, Muay Thai come to mind), this could be a problem. For those of us in more obscure arts, we have little to fear.

 

[dvcochran]

Agreed - where the name matters for marketing (Krav Maga, BJJ, Muay Thai come to mind), this could be a problem. For those of us in more obscure arts, we have little to fear.

I see your point. But what if the government actually tries to apply fines or levy's for non compliance?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I see your point. But what if the government actually tries to apply fines or levy's for non compliance?

Since all you have to do is claim a name (or so it appears), compliance would be pretty easy. If NGA wasn't already taken (and it wouldn't be - no dojos in Portugal), I could just claim that name. If it was, I could claim Shojin-ryu. Or just make a new name and claim that.

Or, if nobody else had claimed it, I could be a jerk and try to claim Aikido, then charge a nominal fee to certify Aikido instructors - there's a few of those in Portugal.

 

[dvcochran]

Since all you have to do is claim a name (or so it appears), compliance would be pretty easy. If NGA wasn't already taken (and it wouldn't be - no dojos in Portugal), I could just claim that name. If it was, I could claim Shojin-ryu. Or just make a new name and claim that.

Or, if nobody else had claimed it, I could be a jerk and try to claim Aikido, then charge a nominal fee to certify Aikido instructors - there's a few of those in Portugal.

Assuming they are not trying to centralize the Arts into a pre-selected group of styles. If that is the case, which is what I understood, NGA would be under another umbrella. Would you comply? I would have to weigh the repercussions very hard.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Assuming they are not trying to centralize the Arts into a pre-selected group of styles. If that is the case, which is what I understood, NGA would be under another umbrella. Would you comply? I would have to weigh the repercussions very hard.

If they tried to put it under Aikido, I don't think there's any way I could comply. No Aikido organization is likely to grant credentials to anyone from NGA unless we lied about our lineage. If they put us in a "Japanese Jujutsu" group, it wouldn't be any worse than anyone else's situation.

Would I comply? Depends what it takes to comply, what the benefit is of compliance, and what the penalty would be for not doing so. But then, that's my question about complying with almost any rule.