Yes Yes we suck.

[Kizaru]

It was not my teacher, but a very skilled senior to me. He drives me crazy with the way he points out all my flaws and won't let me get away with anything short of perfection. He has the bed side manner of Attila the Hun.

Sounds like a Mountain of Wealth.

It is very negative in its own way, but it does allow growth.

Human beings are like photographs, we develop from the negative.

 

[Shinkengata]

When i speak of the things wrong, im saying them because i recognize them and am therefore making a conscious effort to improve. My training methods suck too...i don't do any endurance training...etc....but im working on changing that. Admittance is the first step towards recovery, to quote AA.

 

[CrankyDragon]

I took Aikido, I hear bashing about it, I am now taking BJJ, I hear bashing about that, I used to take Karate, Ive heard bashing about that. Wish I too could find a non-bashable martial art! HAHA!

But on the serious side, you take the art that suits you. I am now in BJJ and think its for me. For you, maybe not... But then again, being a ninja student isnt for me either. Though.... You never know until you try, right?

Good luck, keep your chin up, but your guard ready!
Andrew

 

[Shaolinwind]

What is the deal people?

ALL I hear is NEGATIVE, NEGATIVE, NEGATIVE lately!

Makes me want to give up on this sorry, useless art and study Taekwondo.

Your frustration is totally justified. I'd be annoyed too.

 

[Grey Eyed Bandit]

Good luck, keep your chin up, but your guard ready!

Sorry man, can't do that. Your groin isn't protected while in the guard.

 

[Fallen Ninja]

I agree with you Techno!

All of the sudden people that obvioulsy have no time at all training seem that we need to open ourselves up to new arts outside concepts in order for us to survive in today's world.

I remember when I used to train in another art and thought I had a handle on combat... I walked into a BBT dojo and got a reality check of what combat really is. All I knew was I was on the floor hurting in 10 different places and it looked like an accident.

Just remember why you started training and forget the guys that haven't really seen our art in action.

:ninja:
FN

 

[Grey Eyed Bandit]

All of the sudden people that obvioulsy have no time at all training seem that we need to open ourselves up to new arts outside concepts in order for us to survive in today's world.

You sound like you want to put on blinders to the world. Why? And would you be so kind as to answer the question I put forth in the thread about Hayes's books?

 

[eyebeams]

The way to resolve this insecurity is to regularly test your abilities against a resistant partner, not via a pep talk. I'm not slamming BBT practitioners. I trained with J. Courtland Elliot a few times and because he experienced that kind of testing he had my respect. But to many folks, it looks like BBT material is expansive and elabirate -- and not conducive to providing a solid base, as people run from technique to technique instead of nailing a decent set of 10 or so techniques to the point of full functionality.

 

[Grey Eyed Bandit]

as people run from technique to technique instead of nailing a decent set of 10 or so techniques to the point of full functionality.

Well, there you have it. Functionality under WHAT circumstances?

 

[Dale Seago]

. . .people run from technique to technique instead of nailing a decent set of 10 or so techniques to the point of full functionality.

Personally, I think eight are plenty. Pretty much everything else is henka consisting of elements from those. . .

 

[Don Roley]

The way to resolve this insecurity is to regularly test your abilities against a resistant partner, not via a pep talk.

Ack! No! Don't do it and develop bad habits!!!

When you say 'resistant partner' I get the image of one person trying to do something like oni kudaki and the other guy trying to prevent that technique from being applied. That would be the absolute worse way to train.

If someone tries to stop you from doing technque A, he open himself up to techniques B,C,D and E. And in this art, you don't hit a guy from the direction that he is expecting it to come from.

So, if the other guy has enough forknowledge that oni kudaki is coming to set up resistence, the last thing you want to do is give it to him. Instead of doing "Oni Kudaki or bust" as I call it, as soon as he starts to think something is coming, you flow into something else and catch him unawares. To train against a resistent partner would be to train yourself to do the opposite of this.

Now I agree that your partner should not throw himself across the room like a Ron Duncan uke. If the uke has set up the proper attack for the technique being practiced and the practicioner can't get the elements down, then the fact that it is not working is good feedback. And if the practicioner is so focused on doing oni kudaki that he leaves something wide open, then at a slightly advanced level the uke should make it known by some means like touching him there. This type of training can get out of hand with people trying to count coup on each other. Traditionally, only senior students did it to younger ones. When you have bokuto, this can get real stressfull and interesting. There are threads on the subject here.

But 'resistance' is not something the partner should be doing. Pointing out openings, not 'giving' the technique, maybe (at an advanced level) throwing in unscripted stuff- yes. But no, Oni Kudaki or bust for me thank you.

 

[eyebeams]

Ack! No! Don't do it and develop bad habits!!!

When you say 'resistant partner' I get the image of one person trying to do something like oni kudaki and the other guy trying to prevent that technique from being applied. That would be the absolute worse way to train.

No, I don't mean that. You can't drill a single technique this way. You can progressively add multiple approaches to an exercise, however, so that this set of techniques can be worked dynamically, with the eventual end goal of being able to practice with full speed and power under a set of circumstances approaching reality. There are limits, but these limits are not only concessions to safety, but to the utility of practical (and in most cases, legal) self protection.

And naturally, you need some prerequisite competency, to boot.

 

[eyebeams]

Well, there you have it. Functionality under WHAT circumstances?

Ultimately, this is a function of your own agenda (many people study a martial art for reasons that have nothing to do with self-protection), but I would rather assume that you know what I mean instead of possibly being lured into a reductio ad absurdum argument about the true nature of self-protection.

 

[Shogun]

any MMA or BJJ guy will kick our asses in a real fight, blah blah blah... Its not one or two posts, its rampant in this forum.

that's an Oxymoron in itself. I LOVE MMA, I train MMA, but if your not cheating your not trying.

I took Aikido, I hear bashing about it, I am now taking BJJ, I hear bashing about that, I used to take Karate, Ive heard bashing about that. Wish I too could find a non-bashable martial art! HAHA!

You know whats weird too? the fact that more BJJ guys "bash" more than people from other arts, but in turn, BJJ gets bashed more than anything.

Sorry man, can't do that. Your groin isn't protected while in the guard.

Sure it is. Its protected by Triangle chokes, scizzor sweeps, Kimuras, armbars, and bicep slicers..haha

 

[BlueDragon1981]

Technopunk....I have been there, just look at the Goshin Jutsu Karate threads. Because a particular group of people didn't like the founder they say that everyone in the style sucks.

I don't think any style is bad....it all depends on who is practicing the art. You can get something out of most any art....you just have to keep an open mind and you have to be able to accept that your art may have limitations, which i am not saying yours does. People who can't accept it I don't think are studing martial arts for the right reasons.

 

[Grey Eyed Bandit]

with full speed and power under a set of circumstances approaching reality.

What reality? If by that you mean a sparring bout against someone who is not only similarly trained, but knows you, your intentions and what you're capable of, well...

There are limits, but these limits are not only concessions to safety, but to the utility of practical (and in most cases, legal) self protection.

I beg to differ. It's a self-imposed and unnecessary limitation, which is something we strive to avoid in the Bujinkan if I'm not mistaken.

but I would rather assume that you know what I mean

I know what you mean. And the problem with that approach is that whenever you try to remove as many of the limitations as possible, chances are everything winds up with an ever bigger amount of controlling limitations, mainly because you have to regulate what is and isn't allowed. All training is about picking and choosing among your limitations...because those are always going to be there.

Sure it is. Its protected by Triangle chokes, scizzor sweeps, Kimuras, armbars, and bicep slicers..haha

Not from my clinch pick. I've tried.

 

[Fallen Ninja]

You sound like you want to put on blinders to the world. Why? And would you be so kind as to answer the question I put forth in the thread about Hayes's books?

I know this is off the topic but since you really want to know;

studied with Kenpo, Boxing, MMA (which was based highly on TKD) and trained with a few others. Believe me that is not something that I want to advertise on my resume. :asian:

:ninja:
FN

 

[Deaf]

Techno,

I'm coming in late in the thread however I hopefully have some thoughts that will help you.

What do YOU WANT to accomplish? WHY are YOU training in the Bujinkan? These are the quesitons you need to answer. You don't need to answer the "Why does so so suck?" "Does the Bujinkan Suck?" etc. Because to be quite honest, if this art DID indeed suck then I don't think the art would be around today since most of the founders would have died on the battlefield! Sure there are a few "bad apples" so to speak within the Bujinkan but what people tend to forget, there are "bad apples" in EVERY martial art!

It really doesn't matter what other people are saying ( whether it be one Bujinkan person about another Bujinkan person or someone in another MMA bashing the Bujinkan ). The ONLY thing that matter is YOUR training!

I was in the same boat as you brother! It took me a while to figure it out on my own because I was always worried how other people thought about the Bujinkan and they formed negative opinions of the Bujinkan and myself. Then it just hit me...I train for ME! Not anyone else! If someone thinks I suck or the Bujinkan suck, fine with me. Their opinions have no effect on my training.

Let the people whine and moan... In the long run, the only thing that matters is what you want. And think about this, as these people are whining and moaning, you are training and getting better! So who do you think sucks now????

Hope that helps you a bit.

~Deaf~

 

[eyebeams]

What reality? If by that you mean a sparring bout against someone who is not only similarly trained, but knows you, your intentions and what you're capable of, well...

Compared to training using nothing partial or total compliance from a partner, it's certainly a step up!

I beg to differ. It's a self-imposed and unnecessary limitation, which is something we strive to avoid in the Bujinkan if I'm not mistaken.

I'll be blunt: If an approach cannot be effective under legal, ethical and situational limits on the use of force, then it is weak. I know BBT practitioners who are not weak. Which would you rather be?

I know what you mean. And the problem with that approach is that whenever you try to remove as many of the limitations as possible, chances are everything winds up with an ever bigger amount of controlling limitations, mainly because you have to regulate what is and isn't allowed. All training is about picking and choosing among your limitations...because those are always going to be there.

This does not argue for a set of limitations that excludes training against spirited, dynamic resistance.

 

[Grey Eyed Bandit]

Compared to training using nothing partial or total compliance from a partner, it's certainly a step up!

Not as long as that partner knows what you're intending to do to him/her. That is an unfair advantage people have in training that pretty much never exists IRL.

I'll be blunt: If an approach cannot be effective under legal, ethical and situational limits on the use of force, then it is weak. I know BBT practitioners who are not weak. Which would you rather be?

Couldn't care less. There are Bujinkan practitioners weaker than me who could take me out without breaking a sweat.

This does not argue for a set of limitations that excludes training against spirited, dynamic resistance.

'

When things start going fast, people often confuse their backyard pool with the ocean.