Sorry, Mark, just gotta deal with this little one first. My apologies.
Don't judge me for what happened at other forums - I quit them, rather than getting fired, as you suggest. You have NO clue what really transpired behind the scenes. Furthermore, it is you who is getting aggressive and taunting me, unsuccessfully, in all your replies to all my posts. Your "warrior assassin" view of yourself is comical to me - so please don't try to bully me here on MT, or anywhere else, it won't work... and I would recommend that you not come around my neighborhood with all that attitude in your pocket, holding that rather large chip on your shoulder. You may have to walk away with neither, if you walk away, at all.
If I had a problem with a certain member, for whatever reason, as you appear to have with me - I'd ignore their threads & posts, rather than reply negatively to each and every one of them, as you appear to be doing. You don't like me? So you're making it hard for me to like you? Let it go bro - there are far more important things in life to worry about, than the importance or irrelevance of winning, really. YOU WIN! Kay? Kay.
Angel, I'm not "judging" you for anything here or elsewhere other than your behaviour, examples of which are coming through here. I am advising that you check your responces before you end up the same way here than you have in other places. Lecturing me on "attitude" after your posting history is rather rich, though, don't you think? How many threads have you started about your interactions with other members around the place? Hmm, we'll come back to a few aspects of this...
When it comes to my "warrior/assassin" view of myself, uh, where did you get that from? I train in old systems where the aim is to kill the other person, end of story. There is no competitive aspect, both the Uchidachi and Shidachi (attacking and defending partners) are trying to kill each other during the training, if it's being done properly. The attacks are designed to kill, and the responces are the same. If that very part is missing, then the training loses it's value and purpose; there is no concept of winning, nor of losing, aside from the idea of losing your life. It is this very mindset that is the crucible for development in these arts, giving you a psychologically high-stress situation, much higher than in competitive sports. All I have done is to put forth that as an alternative, which you have simply decided doesn't fit what you want the thread to be about, so you've ignored such comments from myself, Mark, and others.
Tell you what, here's an example of the training I'm talking about:
Now, this is an Embu, a public demonstration, the training is a lot scarier, as if you don't move in time, you get smashed in the head, or get your fingers broken by a solid lump of oak... and the aim is to have it miss you by as little distance and time as possible - but the point here is that this is martial arts training, and in this "winning" is completely irrelevant.
And, if we look at your original post, we see that that's all you really asked about:
I'm always accussed of being over-competitive. I may very well be - I love nothing more than to win, at anything and everything I do. For me, there is no greater feeling in the world than winning, being best, victorious, champion.
Do you believe that winning is important or irrelevant? - Please explain your position. Thanks in advance
You know, that's all I did... I said that, in martial arts training, not competition, it's thoroughly irrelevant, and I explained my position. Your responce was basically "that's not what I'm talking about, so it's irrelevant". My point was that your perspective is rather limited when it comes to martial arts, and the variety that's out there, as well as the variety of reasons that people train, which is evidenced by your posts, so I was providing you with a broader viewpoint. You do get that that's how these discussions work, yeah?
But, of course, it's not just with me. Mark (Sukerkin) made similar comments, and your responce was to dismiss his comments as well:
From the standpoint of Japanese arts, particularly armed ones, winning or losing truly are irrelevant. To consider either of them is to lose mushin.
OK - I understand. Maybe you don't, so I'll say it again.
I'm talking about "SPORTS" winning - none of which is intended to be played / fought to the death.
I gave what I thought to be a great and valid point on winning, bringing a region together (blah-blah-blah), when all else has failed. I guess you don't believe that's ever happened before - I'm making it up?
It's these passive aggressive methods that I'm cautioning you against, Angel. MT is far more stringently moderated than MAP, or other forums, so be careful what you say and how you say it.
Now, I'm thinking. Are those who say it is not important, doing so because they've never been good at competition? - Perhaps it's the, how can something I'm not very good at be important to me, mentality? Maybe fear of the unknown and/or failure, so I won't even compete, to keep myself from failing? I don't know, but sometimes it seems as though, the folks saying that "winning is unimportant" - probably didn't win very often, some may have never won at all.
When it comes to controlling the discussion or not, you have tried to do that multiple times, including the above comments to Mark, the same ones to myself, and the following to Bill Mattocks. That is you trying to control the discussion, rather than allow it to move into areas that you are not so versed in, or that could possibly contradict or challenge your take on things. Not the sign of a truly confident person, I must say.
You are obviously a man of principle, no doubt. Keep in mind, I'm only talking about sports winning - nothing else.
I thank and commend you for your service to this great country we live in. It's folks like yourself that make it so great to begin with.
That is you trying to control the discussion, rather than allow it to move into areas that you are not so versed in, or that could possibly contradict or challenge your take on things. Not the sign of a truly confident person, I must say.
Now, I'm thinking. Are those who say it is not important, doing so because they've never been good at competition? - Perhaps it's the, how can something I'm not very good at be important to me, mentality? Maybe fear of the unknown and/or failure, so I won't even compete, to keep myself from failing? I don't know, but sometimes it seems as though, the folks saying that "winning is unimportant" - probably didn't win very often, some may have never won at all.
I'm just saying that those who are on top of whatever world they sit on - will almost always be competitive, proud and often times loud - with few exceptions... and will do whatever possible to win. On the other hand, those who are not very good at sports, whatever sport it may be they participate in, and rarely, if ever, find themselves on a podium receiving an award - will almost always deny the importance of winning (in sport) - with very few exceptions... and in fact, will often avoid competition altogether.
What does that say to you?
When it comes to the above, all it shows is a very shallow take on personal values. I was very good at the competitive side of things, but have no interest in it at all. The implication that it's sour grapes on the part of anyone who isn't good at sports is childish, frankly. You're basically saying that if people don't agree with you, then that just means they couldn't "cut it" in your world... but we'll get to your world in a little bit.
Maybe runners don't trash talk - but just about every top athlete in sports that I'm interested in viewing, do it... in football, basketball, baseball, hockey, soccer, boxing, MMA, UFC, etc. Most brag, many trash talk - it's part of the game - to create interest and bigger audiences on PPV.
BTW: Does Zola Bud and Mary Decker bring back any memories? Lots of trash talking before and after the Olympic race took place... a race that neither of the two won.
In M/A - amateur or pro - winning is important... perhaps more so than in other sports. You win, you get to fight in bigger events, make money, get ads & commercials, become a movie star, etc, etc.
Honestly, I think the biggest clue to your take on things (and your personality here) was in the post on why you value winning... you basically said in four different ways "it feeds my ego". That then comes through in your entire posting style, essentially that if it's not something you're interested in, or something that fits what you want things to be, the discussion to be, or similar, it's not wanted here. Again, not the sign of a confident personality.
Muhamad Ali was the BIGGEST bragger, most cocky & arrogant athlete that ever lived - yet he has always been one of the most beloved, popular and admired athlete, of all time, through out the whole world. just saying
On a different note: I spoke to my young students about this subject, and asked their opinion. Every single one of them (36) said winning is very important to them. Many of them laughed at me - when I presented them with the opposite scenario (irrelevant) - almost to the point of ridicule, for having done so. These are all children between 5 and 8 y/o.
I went as far as to say that it's not about winning, it's about enjoying what you are doing and having fun at it. Their reply... How can you enjoy and have fun - if you don't win? I tend to agree.
Right, "your world". There are a range of threads elsewhere that I could link, but the important thing to recognise here is that you teach kids, teens at the most. Kids are highly malleable, and it's hardly surprising that, given your views, and the way you have treated the kids, that they'd come back with the type of thing that you are saying yourself. You taught them, didn't you? I'd be surprised if the kids you taught didn't come back with a reflection of your values... that's kinda what Mark was getting at earlier when he mentioned the Kobra Kai Dojo (that's a Karate Kid reference, the original, by the way) in the post you referred to as "a lot of rumbling". Essentially, a highly aggressive, and psychologically damaged and damaging instructor guides his students with the mantra "STRIKE FIRST, STRIKE HARD, NO MERCY SIR!!", along with teachings like "We do not train to be merciful here. Mercy is for the weak. Here, in the streets, in competition: A man confronts you, he is the enemy. An enemy deserves no mercy." and "Fear does not exist in this dojo, does it?... Pain does not exist in this dojo, does it?.... DEFEAT does not exist in this dojo, does it?" "NO SENSEI!!!"
Basically, the lesson is that the instructor was consumed by this win-at-all-costs attitude, and he was dragging his students down with him, leading them to be aggressive thugs and bullies. They followed the Sensei's lead, good or bad. And when it comes to yourself, there are a range of less-than impressive credentials that you have put around the place, with you essentially living vicariously through the victories of the 6, 7, and 8 year old kids that you put in competitions... so how important is winning to you, if you don't compete yourself?
Why? My opinion may not be agreed with, by many - but my arguement does have some real merit and valid points. Although not many members of MT agree with my point of view, I assure you, there are many others who do.
BTW: Nothing I've posted is false or made up - and none of it has been shown to be incorrect...
Hmm, nothing false? Are you sure about that?
Don't judge me for what happened at other forums - I quit them, rather than getting fired, as you suggest.
http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97850
I've been banned at other forums (more than one) for unknown reasons, NO explanation or motive that I can think of... sometimes I was attacked and gangged up on repeatedly by members who did not agree with my views, opinions or ways, often the mods would join in and harrass me as well... and then BAN me.
And that's not getting into the whole "I haven't tried to control the discussion" thing.
Seriously, Angel, my main point is simple. When someone comes in with a perspective or opinion that is contrary to yours, or challenging to yours, take the time to learn and listen, rather than just dismiss it out of hand. And cool that ego, it's doing you no favours.
