Winning - Important or Irrelevant?

[Champ-Pain]

Ah, it's a pity you're ignoring me, Angel, as I actually have an answer for you that you might appreciate (even after the veiled threat against me..."Guess who else lives in Australia?" And you're ignoring me? Classy...).

Winning is important from a sporting point of view. There's no denying that it is, in fact, it's something I've stated in my answers to you. But, and here's where you get to strap in and see if you can finally, after 6 pages, get what I've been saying, competitive endeavours are not the only expression of martial arts. And it's in these non-competitive ones that winning isn't important. If you can't see anything other than competition, this is a boring conversation ("Hey do you like to win when you compete?" "Yeah, I do." "Hey, me too". Hmm), so you may want to consider that, for those for whom winning isn't important, neither is competitive martial arts.

Seriously, I hope you do see this, and finally understand that all I've been talking about is an approach to martial arts that is far from what you know, and I've been trying to give you an insight into other facets of this world. I've never said that winning isn't important, or that it's irrelevant, other than it being irrelevant to me, based on the way I train, and the reasons I train. I've tried to explain that training to you, and those reasons to you, and you have taken my trying to explain to you, and your constant refusal to listen as my not being "positive" towards your posts. There was nothing positive to say about you constantly misreading and getting it wrong.

Then again, if you don't see this, I might just go ahead and report the threat you made. Hmm, sounds like a good idea anyway.

Here it is, again. How does this show up for me to view if I've hit the ignore button? I guess I'm making it up - like everything else I post...

 

[Champ-Pain]

Now, dont mistake this for me saying that winning isn't important. Sure, it is. But also understand that you can't always be a winner.

Completely understood and agreed with.

 

[Steve]

I only made a few posts in this thread, but after reading a bit more, something else came to mind. Many times, I think that its engrained in the minds of people that winning is "THE" only option. Anything less is failure. If you fail, you suck. Well, fact is, people fail all the time. The best of the best can fail. IMO, nothing is 100%. If people fail, they go into some great depression.

I used to see this all the time in HS sports and even in the martial arts. You'd swear some of these people were playing for a million bucks, with the way they'd act. Parents on the sidelines, yelling at the kids. Nice to make your kid feel like **** if Godforbid **GASP*** they lose!

Now, dont mistake this for me saying that winning isn't important. Sure, it is. But also understand that you can't always be a winner.

Very few people have the combination of tangible and intangible traits required to compete or perform at an elite level. That goes for anything, whether sports or whatever.

One of the greatest gifts we can give to our children is to teach them that playing a musical instrument has value, even if you won't be the next {insert rock star}. Playing sports is valuable even if you won't make millions as a pro. There is value in self improvement.

As I said earlier, winning every competition is an unreasonable expectation. Competing to win is something we should all expect. Learning to win AND lose with grace are important life lessons, but there's a third lesson, too. That is to be a quality competitor. To compete with grace, training seriously and competing with every intention of winning is the goal. If you do this, the outcome doesn't matter. If you don't, you're making excuses before you even start and, IMO, disrespecting yourself and your opponent(s).

 

[shesulsa]

Here it is, again. How does this show up for me to view if I've hit the ignore button? I guess I'm making it up - like everything else I post...

Did you follow my suggestions?

 

[Champ-Pain]

Did you follow my suggestions?

Yes, taken care of. I don't know weather to thank you or ignore you too, after the uncalled for PM you sent me about you ripping me and me being a loser. I still don't get it, but I realize you were trying to provoke me. ATTEMPT FAILED!

 

[shesulsa]

Heh - back on the topic of winning and losing ... I liken the philosophical examination of these "opposites" to that of training and testing. Some people think their grading or rank testing happens on the examination date. The TRUTH, however, is that every single day is a test; how hard are you going to train, how smart are you going to train, how are you going to accommodate your limitations and use your talents to compensate? Are you paying attention or are you just f&#cking around? Do you perform every day to the best of your ability so you can improve or do you just complete what you have to in order to get by?

It's not the end result, it's not even the first step - it's the path getting there. If you fall a couple of times, you'd better get up and keep going, because *that* is winning. No one gives you a medal for the *real* winning ... getting up everyday and going forward *anyway* ... THAT plus an attitude of gratitude? THAT is truly winning.

Winners don't need to denigrate others to "win" they don't bask in speaking harshly to others ... people who do that and who wear an award on their chests like a brownie button haven't grasped the importance of the path, the process. Because Life isn't about getting to heaven in the end - it's about living heaven every single day right here ... as you dust, vaccuum, buy groceries, pick up the kids, pay the bills, fight the cancer, get the brows waxed, etcetera.

Even amateurs know that winning is making progress or striving towards it.

Peace, y'all. I'm out.

 

[shesulsa]

Yes, taken care of. I don't know weather to thank you or ignore you too, after the uncalled for PM you sent me about you ripping me and me being a loser. I still don't get it, but I realize you were trying to provoke me. ATTEMPT FAILED!

I recommend you report the PM. You can find that link at the bottom right of the dialog box. And yes, please do ignore me. I have ignored you. =)

 

[Champ-Pain]

I recommend you report the PM. You can find that link at the bottom right of the dialog box. And yes, please do ignore me. I have ignored you. =)

No report needed - delete and ignore is enough for me. I won't be a cry baby and get others involved - I get the feeling that they'd take your side, regardless of who's right or wrong... it's kinda like fighting my opponent on the mat - and having his dad referee the match while his two uncles serve as the judges.

 

[Carol]

Cyriacus: I can almost guarantee I will NOT hit the display button, in this case. I appreciate your opinion and I tend to agree that it's gone on long enough... but I'd like someone, anyone to answer one question before this thread is locked/closed:

If winning is irrelevant, then why do so many athletes train, practice and sacrifice so much, so hard and so regularly, in order to do so... sweating, bleeding and on occation crying, due to pain, exhaustion and injury, some even cheating, doping and/or using performance enhansement drugs, in order to win at whatever sport they participate in?

Because when you pour your heart, soul, and mind to a pursuit that involves pushing the body to its limit, the pursuit is going to have a beginning and an end, be it time periods, or rounds fought, or distance covered. You start with energy. Your heart surges by the positive moments, your jaw set as you get through the negative moments. When you finally get do get to the end, you don't wonder about whether you did your best, you KNOW whether you did everything that you could to do your best. Your body tells you.

Then you leave the arena or the gym or the game, and climb in to your car to go to dinner. When you get back home to your kitchen or to your restaurant of choice, you climb out of the car and realize your body is fiercely stiff. Everything hurts as you limp your way inside. You're so tired you're not even thinking clearly. But that cup of soup or plate of salad or bowl of pasta or cut of meat tastes like the most delicious thing you ever had. Despite the pain you're feeling good. Very good. Perhaps you have an adult beverage, or perhaps you just enjoy draining a cup of water that's actually cold and icy and not lukewarm.

You finish your dinner and wind down the day enveloped by a sense of calm....even if you're damn sore. And you wake up the next day feeling in freaking credible. Even if you're sore, even if all you want to do is rest, you've got a charge running through you like no other. Its why you keep going back and why you won't give it up.

At least...that's how it is for me.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Thread locked pending staff review