Why the hate between TMA and MMA?

[Ironbear24]

Fixed that for you.

Then you truly are lost Anakin.

 

[drop bear]

Just an FYI in most gyms it's absolutely not taught

There is as much experience and expertise in real street encounters in a MMA gym as there is in a dedicated self defence gyms.

To suggest that deescalation is some sort of skill you can only aquire in a self defence gym is the same as suggesting that you can only aquire women's self defence from a women's self defence course.

 

[Mou Meng Gung Fu]

"Oh because competent fighting skills will help when a rapist tells you not to fight back because he'll kill your children otherwise?"

I wasn't going to respond to anything that anyone said on here any more, but then I saw this statement and it brought back memories and flashbacks. I'm now curious. All that other ******** aside that all you people talk about, has anyone here actually been in that situation in real life, not just talking about it? Anyone? Because I know that I have. I remember it like it was yesterday. I can tell you right now from personal experience who here knows what the love they're talking about, and who does not. All those theories and training methods, and MMA vs TMA and SD principles, and all that other ********, is just that, ********. But whatever. I'm not going to call anyone out, because doing so would be pointless. I'm not going to argue with symantecs. I just felt really touched by this statement. For a brief second, I thought I heard someone say something that was actually truthful and untwisted for once. But I digress. My morning jog was quite relaxing. I ran 5 miles today, and now I'm going to lift some weights for a little bit. Have fun with your discussions. Don't ask me for ****.

Oh and just a couple days ago actually, my family was interviewed by a local news reporter in regards to that incident, which happened many years ago. Even now, I still choke up when I talk about it. You'll be either happy or indifferent to know that my family is safe, and the attacker is dead. Don't ask. You wouldn't believe me anyway. It doesn't matter.

 

[Tez3]

If you decide to ignore his threats and fight back?

Yep.

Are you a woman, if not, then you actually have no bloody idea.

 

[Tez3]

has anyone here actually been in that situation in real life, not just talking about it?

You will find quite a lot of us have had to deal with a lot of situations that have left scars mental and physical.

 

[drop bear]

Are you a woman, if not, then you actually have no bloody idea.

Tez seriously stop it. You are not presenting an argument.

You are just trying to emotionaly blackmail people.

You think this makes Hanzou look like the bad guy. But it actually make you look like one.

 

[drop bear]

"Oh because competent fighting skills will help when a rapist tells you not to fight back because he'll kill your children otherwise?"

I wasn't going to respond to anything that anyone said on here any more, but then I saw this statement and it brought back memories and flashbacks. I'm now curious. All that other ******** aside that all you people talk about, has anyone here actually been in that situation in real life, not just talking about it? Anyone? Because I know that I have. I remember it like it was yesterday. I can tell you right now from personal experience who here knows what the love they're talking about, and who does not. All those theories and training methods, and MMA vs TMA and SD principles, and all that other ********, is just that, ********. But whatever. I'm not going to call anyone out, because doing so would be pointless. I'm not going to argue with symantecs. I just felt really touched by this statement. For a brief second, I thought I heard someone say something that was actually truthful and untwisted for once. But I digress. My morning jog was quite relaxing. I ran 5 miles today, and now I'm going to lift some weights for a little bit. Have fun with your discussions. Don't ask me for ****.

Oh and just a couple days ago actually, my family was interviewed by a local news reporter in regards to that incident, which happened many years ago. Even now, I still choke up when I talk about it. You'll be either happy or indifferent to know that my family is safe, and the attacker is dead. Don't ask. You wouldn't believe me anyway. It doesn't matter.

I was yelled at once.

If I am going to pull up Tez for emotional blackmail it is only fair I do you as well.

 

[Hanzou]

Are you a woman, if not, then you actually have no bloody idea.

How is that relevant?

Again, IF a woman decides to fight back against her attacker, having competent fighting skills would be a benefit. Let's stay on topic please.

 

[Tez3]

How is that relevant?

Again, IF a woman decides to fight back against her attacker, having competent fighting skills would be a benefit. Let's stay on topic please.

Patronise much, Captain Obvious? Please return to your 'BJJ is the best eva' shtick and leave the serious things to us.

 

[JP3]

Cheap emotional hypothetical. There are always situations you can't fight your way out of.

They don't prove anything.

What?

What do you mean they don't prove anything?

I mean, I had this dream the other night. I was wearing a loincloth for some reason, probably because my wife told me once that she'd like to see that. Y'all don't need to think too much about that... Mental Eraser Insert Here.

Anyway, my Russian beuty got captured by this cyclops, my wife did, (yeah, I know this paints me with the Ulysses marker, so what) and this huge guy is climbing this hill and he's pointing behind him as my wife with her fantastic derriere' is totally flashing over his shoulder, and he's sending his... I think the best word is minions at me and they are all wearing ninja costumes because (I think) that's what was my prototypical "Bad Guy" was when I was age 8 to 18 and I have to go up the trail on this hill, and the hill is mostly sand and it's hard to run uphill and these ninja guys - who are wearing different colored.... shoot I've no idea what the ninja gi is called (help me please) and these dudes and I suppose dudettes because some are smaller are running down the hill at me all deathly quiet because no one has ever heard a ninja say anything ever and I'm trying to run uphill in sand and everyone knows how impossible that is and still look cool and I'm failing miserably and here comes the first one and he launches himself in a flying kick and I'm like "Whew, that's easy" and I just touch him as he flies over and I duck and then the next one is there and he throws 3 shruriken with all three of his arms and I slip them mostly slipping as I go "Wow, really? 3 arms?" and then I'm on him and his hand is in his shirt as apparently nobody has ever dodged all all 3 and I suddenly remember "Wait! 3 Arms!" so I duck and his swing goes over my head as I head butt him in the solar plex (remember, running uphill in sand) but because of the sand it's not that effectual and all it does is move him back a pace so a quic Osoto and he goes down and on my way past I step on his neck and then the next one is there and he has his ninja-to out and it's cutting in a kesa-cut for all my important bits, which I think are important too keep intact, so I accelerate just enough to get inside the cut which most swordsman don't expect and I think "Whoa! Lucky!" and then keep going while dragging his lead wrist with me and as he spins around I invert his wrist witht a nifty mawashi-lock I discovered and he squeals like a little girls which I find surprising because I thought ninja had vows of silence but maybe that is just the TV ones, or maybe the movie ones, I don't know and now I've got his ninja-to and I've no damn idea how to use it so I just put it out in front of me and continue running... uphill... in sand....

This dream goes on for a long, long time folks. I could keep going, but I think you would get bored.

In the end, the fantastic derriere and I end up in the cyclop's hot tub drinking his mead, so it's all good.

And guess what I learned?

It really is hard to run in sand.

 

[JP3]

No, in some BJJ gyms perhaps but certainly not even most. Not in MMA gyms.

On this point... gently disagreed. There are some MMA gyms that actually have reasoning, trained and sound practitioners in them, as odd as that may seem. Rare, but they do exist.

It's not your principle Tez, but the absolutism, that I disagree with. Simply because you've not experienced it personally does not mean that restraint and common sense does not exist in all MMA gyms.

I'll grant you... it's quite rare.

 

[JP3]

Amusing, if not quite right.

Hey.... I went to a lot of work to craft that one...

 

[JP3]

Just remember

If you meet an ******* in the morning....you met an *******.

If most of the people you meet you think are assholes...chances are...you're the *******.

Dead. Solid. Perfect.

Agreed.

Reminds me of comedian Ron White's bit about the lady who shouted out at one of his shows near Ft. Bragg that she'd slept with all 40,000 of the troops there and they were all rotten lays....

"Maybe it's me?"

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I've always been the luckiest person I've ever known. I know a bunch of Traditional schools, but I've not known one that has dishonesty, or more important in my opinion, naivety, in their training methods.

I have absolutely no doubt there are plenty that do, I just don't know them.

I've known one of each, or two of the latter - hard to tell the difference sometimes. But all the rest I've known - both MMA and TMA - have been good people training hard when they can. learning to make their stuff work.

 

[JP3]

Probably because there was a decent to a lot of money to be made, peddling Asian martial art myths, Asian mysticism and other Asian fetishes if most to all of the arts, never mingled in competition, especially not the Striker vs. Grappler types. Now I'm not against having Asian fetishes, but it was the "I'm super deadly" fakery that I was glad, being exposed Because at that time in 1994 or so, I was like most anyone else, who thought all of those Kung-Fu masters with long white beards, Karate choppers, etc. were untouchable..

First, I really want, no need to know, in order to respond in the right way -- at least I think I do -- how old were you in 1994?

My point starts with.... money? Do you really think there was "money" in martial arts back in the day?

Shoot, is there "money" in martial arts now? Well, I supposes there is money, lower case "m" intended. But there is not Money. Or Dana's MONEY. In an M.B.A. there is Money. In an M.D. or Ph.D. (depending on field, granted) there is Money. In a J.D. there "might" be Money.

But... in the fight game? Maybe in ultimate high-level boxing, maybe.... but the lifestyle trade-off to be in MMA for a living seem.... shoot... it's easier to just get a job.

 

[JP3]

It depends on what you're aiming for. Just don't expect free, pre-UFC 01 respect, just because you're a Black Belt in something.

I don't. I just show up. It seems to work.

MMA gyms are like any other gym, all over the world. Show up. Train. Do your thing. Sweat. Probably grunt. There may be an inescapable fart, which people laugh at, it happens. Drop some kid on his head. Explain what you just did. Teach it to him, show him what he did that allowed you to do it. Do what he did, then land on your head. Laugh, get up.

Respect. Natural causative cycle. No threats, no posturing, no swelling and beating of chest necessary. Neat, actually. Fun.

 

[Ironbear24]

First, I really want, no need to know, in order to respond in the right way -- at least I think I do -- how old were you in 1994?

He wears tap out shirts to look tough so uh, he is probably sadly in his twenties.

DISCLAIMER

I am also in my twenties but do not do that

 

[Gerry Seymour]

There is as much experience and expertise in real street encounters in a MMA gym as there is in a dedicated self defence gyms.

To suggest that deescalation is some sort of skill you can only aquire in a self defence gym is the same as suggesting that you can only aquire women's self defence from a women's self defence course.

The issue, to me, isn't whether it could be taught. Folks I've talked to who trained at MMA gyms said it wasn't taught. It just wasn't part of the curriculum, because the curriculum was targeted at training for competition. Mind you, that's a small sample, and only from the US. As you say, there are plenty of people coaching MMA who have the capacity to teach such. Probably there are some who do.

 

[JP3]

Define very few. Boxing, Ju-Jitsu, various styles of Karate, TKD, styles of wrestling. I think wrestling competitions are the staple of most US universities, Sumo wrestling has been taking place in Japan for how many years with how many competitors, Mudo has been in the Olympics, and pretty much any art with a sporting sIde have all had competion fighting for decades.

Completely agree.

But... think of the vast multitudes of people who train doing all the plethora of other things that are lumped into the huge basket we call martial arts. That's who I am talking about. Pooh-bear taekwondo schools on every street corner (it seems) in the U.S. I don't know if they are like that in other countries. Judo, though failing in popularity in the U.S., is slipping dramatically in popularity because *gasp* people have to fall down (ouchie) don't train with that intensity unless they are at least a regional to national level competitor fostering school. The average karate school is FAR from being a full-contact school. Go to a martial arts tournament and watch a forms competiton if you want to see some amazing dance and gymnastics... you probably wont' see any good fighting, because it's not taught. Well... I better caveat that with "it's not been taught to the past about 200 open tournaments I've attended."

That is what I mean. That help, Paul?

BJJ, given. I'm good with that. Still only a minority on the U.S. arts spectrum/diversity. Olympic TKD schools... maybe... depending on if they get outside the rules structure. I grant you, they hit like a truck, but they defend like tiger lilies if you don't react in their rules structure. Boxing is serious, but if they've never trained for a foot sweep or take down... meat. Wrestlers... are interesting. Wrestlers to me seem to be able to make the mental switch the easiest, though seem to have the most limited arsenal to work... from if that makes sense. Probably the most full-tilt boogie combative sport we've got going in the U.S. right now. Actually, I'd take a competive 10th grade wrestler at the state level against a high school senior TKD guy in a scrap and I'm not kidding. I'd scare the bejeezus out of the 10th grader about those feet, do my best to teach what to watch for about weight-shifting and load-preparation, and cross my fingers and let a Benjamin ride.

 

[JP3]

He wears tap out shirts to look tough so uh, he is probably sadly in his twenties.

DISCLAIMER

I am also in my twenties but do not do that

I knew you were in your 20s Iron Bear, but I am only guessing FR is in his 20s. I hate to stick people with incorrect tags.

Like I tagged Gerry as this 6'6" sort of Italian guy doing aikido, who now has a pot belly and is talking about aikido now on the down low because he can't talk about in public anymore because he talked about it way too much in interviews and in his movies which he took way too far afield from aikid itself and he got a big head and decided that smacking his uber-hot super model wife would be a "good idea" (which it turned out it never is) and now he's a deputy in Louisiana and who does that anyway....


And... it turns out that I was wrong. Steven would never admit to having bad knees.