Why the hate between TMA and MMA?

[Hanzou]

That is not an endorsement, in fact it proves the point I made on a thread about women's self defence. The self defence taught in the vast majority of these classes is pointless, dangerous and extremely misleading. It makes most knowledgeable female martial artists quite angry. It's all about the money and that is disgusting.

Well that isn't something you can place only on MMA gyms, that's something you see in just about every MA dojo or gym. I would argue that at least in the MMA gym the woman is learning competent fighting skills.

 

[Headhunter]

It's taught in nearly all Gracie affiliated gyms, it's taught in Gracie Barra gyms, it's taught in 10th Planet Bjj gyms, and it's taught in a good portion of sport Bjj gyms. That would constitute the majority of Bjj gyms.

Nope because I trained at a Gracie Barra gym for a yeah and not once ever was anything like that taught. Try again

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I wouldn't consider classical MAs to be as efficient as a revolver. Again, classical MAs tend to be bogged down by multiple factors which inhibit the development of fighting ability.

I disagree with that as a blanket statement, but you and I already knew we had that difference of opinion.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Nope. There's a reason TKD is abundant, but the karate and Kung Fu styles it derived from are all but extinct. One fits the modern age, and the others don't. Additionally, I would put the current best TKD practicioners in the world against those old masters from centuries ago, and I'd bet that the former would win quite handily. Just like the current Bjj champs and MMA fighters would mop the floor with Maeda and the early Gracies.

In short, older isn't always better.

I don't think I've heard anyone say "older is better" in this thread. And comparing people from a century ago to people from today is not the same as comparing old arts to new arts. I think top-level Judoka from today would also mop the floor with top-level Judoka from decades ago. The same might be true of striking arts, but I'm less familiar with them. Most arts do actually progress, even as some hold traditional training methods.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

In all the above back and forth, I think this is the single statement I can agree with the most.

I think we can all agree that "What you train is what you do when called upon to have to do it." SD, MMA, streetfight, Passenger 57, Carjacking, etc. You would want to be able to fit what is happening through the prism of yur training and see through that prism to something you have "done before." And... done before preferably very well, over a thousand times. If not, what you come up with is going to be less distance from the left end of the below continuum than to the right end:

THAT DID NOT WORK --- --- --- --- --- --- --- THAT WORKED EXACTLY RIGHT

In the above, it's way better to be Right than left.

I love slipping in political commentary into my posts. Apologies if you didn't find it amusing, I sure did.

Amusing, if not quite right.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I don't how you guys do it across the pond, but here in the states, you'd be hard pressed to find a legit MMA gym that doesn't offer self defense for women. It's pretty big business over here, and most gyms aren't going to pass up on that money.

Okay, but that's not nearly the same thing as SD training being a part of what's taught to the MMA practitioners training there. I assume some MMA gyms do that, too, but I also know some MMA folks actually are proud that it's not.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Thread drift...but wasn't she singing about Warren Beatty? Thought I remember that from somewhere back in the day...

I've also heard that she was singing about Mick Jagger.

 

[JP3]

They are not exactly the same. Kata is a lot more technical.

Generally agree, but witht he caveat that there are different ways to look at kata and how to do kata.

I can conceive of a shadow-boxing kata, certainly. I used to call it drilling, but same-same. Repetitive training practice for muscle memory and fluidity and relaxed power.

Left foot forward, fighting stance you prefer: Jab, Cross, Hook, Uppercut. There you go, kata 1, done. Pretty short but hey, I wrote it so I can make it as long or as short as I want.

I can work that as repetitive training, and I can do it into focus mitts held by a partner or in the air. The partner can hold the target pads steady or move them around (my preference so targeting becomes ingrained instead of "A Target")... or I can do them in the air to just work speed.

Or I can go all technical bonkers and do them super slow, analyzing the techniques as they leave boxing guard (or whatever guard) and move towards the target point, looking at the strike itself, examinging my posture and body/hip/leg drive on each, seeing where I inevitably leave myself open so as to strike the opponent.

It's all the same onion.

 

[JP3]

You have talked countless times on this forum about your experience in the martial arts but no one on here has ever seen you physically do any martial arts training, demonstrate any techniques or seen footage of you competing in competitions or fighting in the street, Seems like anecdotal evidence to me.

Uh... the same could be said for most of us. I don't post my stuff because:

A. I'm a lazy poster;
B. Nobody would get the jokes I tell during class because they are in-class history driven;
C. I'm sure I'd get called out on my inability, choice actually, to no longer kick above my, or other's, heads. Well, this last assumes that I've yet to bring them down to where it's way easier; and
D. I've got no desire to read comments about, "Wow, man. Surprising you can move so well carrying all that around with you."

 

[JP3]

You mustn't know very many. I met assholes in many styles.

I remove assholes from my presence, or myself from theirs.

It reduces hypertension. Walking away from drama-starters is a fantastic way to make yourself feel better. I wish my wife would have introduced me to this concept in my 20s.

 

[JP3]

ONE: slavering rabid bunnies over dandelions on the lawn

TWO: patent numpties

I am SO Glad I had put my coffee down prior to reading that! Do you know how bad it hurts to shoot hot coffee out your nose? Catastrophic Disaster Averted!

I love the English sense of humor/humorous sayings.

... slavering rabid bunnies.... Brilliant.

 

[JP3]

Pretty much my problem with the guy. He acts like everyone here wants to fight each other and he's the doe eyed innocent who gets bullied when quite honestly he's caused a lot of problems here himself. His first post here was telling us about a brand new style he invented of course he's going to get crisisism. No one here agrees on anything and that's fine I'm sure loads of people here disagree with me and that's perfectly fine I'm not going to cry about it. That's life

Agreed, though I usually try to ask them why. I could possibly learn something useful. The whole "No man is so ignorant that I may not learn something from him," thing. Is that Ben Franklin? I forget.

But... in this particular case, I get it. No need to ask.

 

[CB Jones]

I remove assholes from my presence, or myself from theirs.

It reduces hypertension. Walking away from drama-starters is a fantastic way to make yourself feel better. I wish my wife would have introduced me to this concept in my 20s.

Just remember

If you meet an ******* in the morning....you met an *******.

If most of the people you meet you think are assholes...chances are...you're the *******.

 

[FriedRice]

Prior to UFC, very few, and I mean Very Few people actually trained to get in a ring with another bad dude, or lady, and attempt to defeat said other bad dude/lady witht a set of skills that the other person also knew or was likely to know.

Probably because there was a decent to a lot of money to be made, peddling Asian martial art myths, Asian mysticism and other Asian fetishes if most to all of the arts, never mingled in competition, especially not the Striker vs. Grappler types. Now I'm not against having Asian fetishes, but it was the "I'm super deadly" fakery that I was glad, being exposed Because at that time in 1994 or so, I was like most anyone else, who thought all of those Kung-Fu masters with long white beards, Karate choppers, etc. were untouchable.

UFC was a fight laboratory, plain and simple.

Let's not forget that the Gracie's invented the entire concept of the UFC... and what did they do regularly? Fight just like the UFC at home in Brazil.

The Gracie didn't really invent this concept of the UFC, they were just the A-Holes that said to everyone in the MA community, to "backup your mouth"...."open or closed doors, no rules" = Vale Tudo. Yes, the Gracies were trying to make a name for themselves and promote their BJJ, but was this wrong? Maybe against some set standards of Asian Honor, set up by some Western Asian fetishists, but us Asians, loves this pitting of style vs. style for glory and national pride. Another well known A-Hole who took this similar route was, Bruce Lee....who went around picking fights to make a name for himself, including dropping some old man who was merely demonstrating Tai Chi (by punching him for real). Bruce Lee even posted flyers all over, challenging people to fight = that famous fight with Jack Man Wong. Sure, after he got famous was when he and his publicists cleaned up his image.

 

[FriedRice]

For SD I would use Threat and Awareness Evaluation, Coopers colour codes, Target Hardening, verbal deescalation and running away to avoid a fight.

I have deescalted a Road Rage incident just using The Fence.

What MMA skills would you use? .

Translation into "Non-Tactical" terminology.....you talked to the guy who was road raging, in trying to get him to not punch you and if that didn't work, you'd run.

MMA skills we use is to wear TapOut clothing all year round. The clothes does the talking for me. Nobody bothers me.

 

[FriedRice]

Yet many succeed without neither. I look at like this. Are you training like an MMA fighter ? If the answer is no, they you will never be one.

Are you training to be a kick boxer? A karateka? A Judoka? If yes then you will be those, if not then you won't. If you wish to be a good martial artist then train like one, same concept.

It depends on what you're aiming for. Just don't expect free, pre-UFC 01 respect, just because you're a Black Belt in something.

 

[CB Jones]

TapOut clothing

What we call Mouth Breather Jerseys

 

[Paul_D]

Prior to UFC, very few, and I mean Very Few people actually trained to get in a ring with another bad dude, or lady, and attempt to defeat said other bad dude/lady witht a set of skills that the other person also knew or was likely to know.

Define very few. Boxing, Ju-Jitsu, various styles of Karate, TKD, styles of wrestling. I think wrestling competitions are the staple of most US universities, Sumo wrestling has been taking place in Japan for how many years with how many competitors, Mudo has been in the Olympics, and pretty much any art with a sporting sIde have all had competion fighting for decades.

 

[Steve]

This whole thread rwminds me of the old Reeses Peanut Butter cup commercials. I keep expecting GPSeymour to say, "Hey!! You got your MMA in my TMA!"

 

[Gerry Seymour]

This whole thread rwminds me of the old Reeses Peanut Butter cup commercials. I keep expecting GPSeymour to say, "Hey!! You got your MMA in my TMA!"

Posts like that make up for all of the ones I disagree with you on, Steve. And they are perhaps why we get along.