Why the hate between TMA and MMA?

[Hanzou]

Nope because I trained at a Gracie Barra gym for a yeah and not once ever was anything like that taught. Try again

Oh? Which one did you train at?

 

[Hanzou]

Okay, but that's not nearly the same thing as SD training being a part of what's taught to the MMA practitioners training there. I assume some MMA gyms do that, too, but I also know some MMA folks actually are proud that it's not.

Agreed. I was merely pointing out that SD training can be found at some MMA gyms, and the majority of Bjj schools, much to the contrary of many in this thread.

 

[FriedRice]

This is so true, it's not even funny. You know, a few martial artists on MTalk were extremely critical about one particular picture I showed of me holding my elbow in a way that seemed strangely ackward to them. I got some pretty ruthless comments about it (lol). It's all good though. What most of them didn't get to see was the motion behind the elbow or the reason for it. ."

I'd like to see that picture. Link?

 

[FriedRice]

It is easy to think that if you are ignorant of the realities of criminal violence, or your definition of SD is men getting into street fights.


Someone with a weapon they are not trained to use.

Don't forget the important part of not being able to rattle off all the "tactical terminologies" neither. Then there's the all purpose, camou, tactical pants and tactical boots. Who cares about ruining thousands of dollars in mats, right?

 

[Ironbear24]

This whole thread rwminds me of the old Reeses Peanut Butter cup commercials. I keep expecting GPSeymour to say, "Hey!! You got your MMA in my TMA!"

So what you are saying is when they come together you get something magical?

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Agreed. I was merely pointing out that SD training can be found at some MMA gyms, and the majority of Bjj schools, much to the contrary of many in this thread.

People like to use the term "SD" to show they are better person than others. When your fist meets on your opponent's face, Whether you want to call it SD or fighting, it will make no difference.

 

[Ironbear24]

It depends on what you're aiming for. Just don't expect free, pre-UFC 01 respect, just because you're a Black Belt in something.

And it never should have, a black belt isn't magic and doesn't give special powers. Admiration should be earned through performance and capabilities.

 

[Ironbear24]

MMA skills we use is to wear TapOut clothing all year round. The clothes does the talking for me. Nobody bothers me.

Is this sarcasm because when most people see a tapout shirt the first thing that comes to mind is douche bag.

 

[Tez3]

Well that isn't something you can place only on MMA gyms, that's something you see in just about every MA dojo or gym. I would argue that at least in the MMA gym the woman is learning competent fighting skills.

Oh because competent fighting skills will help when a rapist tells you not to fight back because he'll kill your children otherwise? Learning how to defend yourself as a woman is so much more than just 'fighting skills'.
Some MMA gyms I know of aren't worth anything, they don't teach decent skills for competition let along fighting skills for self defence, yes there's some TMA places that don't teach properly but as I said it's down to the instructors and their skills not the style. I know an appalling MMA 'coach' who tries to put fighters in promotions but no one will have them because they have such poor skills they will get hurt. This is solely the 'coach's' fault not MMAs. That's how it goes, that's life. It's no good telling us how brilliant MMA is compared to TMA and vice versa it's down to the instructors, if they are pants then their students will be too, remember there's no bad students only bad instructors.

 

[Buka]

And it never should have, a black belt isn't magic and doesn't give special powers. Admiration should be earned through performance and capabilities.

A friend of mine has a magic black belt with special powers. It makes him invisible.
I'll bet you've never seen him.

 

[CB Jones]

First thing new black belts do at our dojo is to be bitten by a radioactive spider. And that where they get their power

 

[drop bear]

In all the above back and forth, I think this is the single statement I can agree with the most.

I think we can all agree that "What you train is what you do when called upon to have to do it." SD, MMA, streetfight, Passenger 57, Carjacking, etc. You would want to be able to fit what is happening through the prism of yur training and see through that prism to something you have "done before." And... done before preferably very well, over a thousand times. If not, what you come up with is going to be less distance from the left end of the below continuum than to the right end:

THAT DID NOT WORK --- --- --- --- --- --- --- THAT WORKED EXACTLY RIGHT

In the above, it's way better to be Right than left.

I love slipping in political commentary into my posts. Apologies if you didn't find it amusing, I sure did.

By the way there are two sides to politics. Moderates and nut jobs.

There are plenty of TMA, s that can make their junk work. It is not TMA I have an issue with. It is the dishonesty in training that riles me.

 

[Buka]

I've always been the luckiest person I've ever known. I know a bunch of Traditional schools, but I've not known one that has dishonesty, or more important in my opinion, naivety, in their training methods.

I have absolutely no doubt there are plenty that do, I just don't know them.

 

[drop bear]

To be aware that it is there? Just thinking. I take your point to mean that, examining probabilities of success is the method with which you're going to evaluate what yu are going to learn... or maybe not to learn, because you did mention it so you already know it is there, but to train it. And by train it, I mean drill it in class repetitively until it's a core thing. I can get behand that idea... up tot he point when I've got to face omeone who knows my tendencies and has a plan in place for me.

I'll give you that it's not likely to happen in a bar brawl situation, but it has happened to me really quickly at judo tournmants, so it ould happen anytime someone has a chance to watch you move duing a match/confrontation, etc. Just something to think about. I found out the hard way that I had a holdover from my TKD days in that I would fight southpaw even though right-handed and right leg/kick dominant.... BECAUSE of the right leg/kick dominance, faster/higher/better control. Al the things you'd like to have in a TKD tournament, get the fastest thing forward if for no other reason than to keep that other fast-mover away from you.

But then that means that you step forward right leg first. Or perhaps I'll put it this way... You Advance your right Foot. Add one more word and you've got my now favorite (for this precise reason) ashi-waza, Deashi-barai. Advanced Foot Sweep. Second match of the Brown Belt Championships in Texas at A&M some years ago, 2nd match of the day and a guy who'd watched my first match saw what I did, waited for it, and sent me off to the consolation bracket to fight for an eventual 3rd. Nice guy, as judoka usually are. I hunted him up after the tournament and he told me he'd spotted the above tendency and planned to use it if I stepped as I had, and sure enough, I stepped on the invisible banana peel. Splat! Ippon! Ack. Ugh. Shame. Pout.

You get the same in all systems. All these super clever submissions or moves that you can pull off but probably never will.

Look at MMA and the showtime kick. It works but it is very situational.

But for self defence because of the risk i am an advocate of fighting in as conservative manner as i can. Take as few risks as i can.

So I dont trade an elbow for winding up fighting off my back.

 

[Hanzou]

Oh because competent fighting skills will help when a rapist tells you not to fight back because he'll kill your children otherwise?

If you decide to ignore his threats and fight back?

Yep.

 

[drop bear]

I've always been the luckiest person I've ever known. I know a bunch of Traditional schools, but I've not known one that has dishonesty, or more important in my opinion, naivety, in their training methods.

I have absolutely no doubt there are plenty that do, I just don't know them.

I have done plenty. And I have gone out and tried all the famous theorys on scumbags.

A lot of them are more of a cool idea rather than a viable method.

 

[Ironbear24]

Oh because competent fighting skills will help when a rapist tells you not to fight back because he'll kill your children otherwise? Learning how to defend yourself as a woman is so much more than just 'fighting skills'.
Some MMA gyms I know of aren't worth anything, they don't teach decent skills for competition let along fighting skills for self defence, yes there's some TMA places that don't teach properly but as I said it's down to the instructors and their skills not the style. I know an appalling MMA 'coach' who tries to put fighters in promotions but no one will have them because they have such poor skills they will get hurt. This is solely the 'coach's' fault not MMAs. That's how it goes, that's life. It's no good telling us how brilliant MMA is compared to TMA and vice versa it's down to the instructors, if they are pants then their students will be too, remember there's no bad students only bad instructors.

It's hanzou, MMA can do no wrong.

 

[drop bear]

That is not an endorsement, in fact it proves the point I made on a thread about women's self defence. The self defence taught in the vast majority of these classes is pointless, dangerous and extremely misleading. It makes most knowledgeable female martial artists quite angry. It's all about the money and that is disgusting.

Yeah. It is a glaring red flag on the argument of context and specific training.

 

[drop bear]

It's hanzou, MMA can do no wrong.

Cheap emotional hypothetical. There are always situations you can't fight your way out of.

They don't prove anything.

 

[Hanzou]

It's hanzou, Bjj can do no wrong.

Fixed that for you.