Why the hate between TMA and MMA?

[Mou Meng Gung Fu]

Hey do you hear that? It's the worlds smallest violin

Nah, that's not what I hear. Those are crickets chirping. That's the sound of you rubbing your fingertips together silently, because you have nothing to say. You can quote me, but you can't argue with what you quoted this time. You know I'm right. That's why you can't say anything. You say you've been doing this longer than I've been alive? Well no wonder you don't like me. That must piss you off (lol). Well get used to it friend. There's a whole generation of me out there, like it or not. That's the problem with old war vets. They're too stuck in their ways. You older guys think you just know it all. I can admit when I'm wrong. Why can't you? The world is different now. MA isn't what it used to be. In fact it's gotten better and better over the years. I'm proud to be one of the newer MAists in today's world. We've got internet. We've got access to all different kinds of training now. We can master techniques in half the time it took MAists back in the days.

 

[Tez3]

Well there are aggressive opinions, defensive opinions and neutral opinions then. So if MTalk isn't a competitive site, then maybe it shouldn't be promoted as such by its paying members. There is no need for aggression. It doesn't feel too good to be on the receiving end of an aggressive opinion, does it?

it's paying members don't promote the site as such, one poster who was bang out of order was abusive to you, the rest of us defended you, that poster is not around at the moment for whatever reason, I suspect because the mods took a hand because contrary to what you believe aggressive posting and attacks on poster aren't allowed. As for being on the end of aggressive posts, hell no, it doesn't bother me in the slightest.

Self Defense (SD) to me means the ability or skills to 'avoid' street fights. Are you suggesting that MMA fighters can't avoid a street fight?

Dear me, more hypocrisy, you accused a poster of twisting words and now you are doing it. shame on you (lol)

Are you suggesting MMA fighters can't defend themselves on the streets?

No, he's not. I think you need to get out of this fantasy of 'on the street' it isn't helping your credibility. The type of people who 'fight on the street' aren't the type who come to MT, we train self defence for a reason, muggings, attacks at workplaces ( depending on job but they are becoming more common in many places such as hospital A&Es) and situations that can't be avoided. I'd suggest you don't actually know many MMA people, in fact I'm not sure you actually know many martial artists because you hold an idealised view of them.

Nah, that's not what I hear. Those are crickets chirping. That's the sound of you rubbing your fingertips together silently, because you have nothing to say..

I think you need to give yourself a good talking to. You may also owe Headhunter compensation for the coffee he spilt on his keyboard laughing so much at that. Come on princess go get a cup of man up and discuss things that aren't about you.

 

[Kong Soo Do]

That's an extreme position, and doesn't contribute to the debate.

Yes, it was an extreme position, and yes, it did contribute to the debate. The reason it did contribute is because it conveyed a specific point which was then acknowledged and understood by the person I was talking to on the topic. It then furthered the discussion to a point where I feel we were connecting for the first time. Win-win.

You wouldn't get to use some of those things against someone who was subduing you without injuring you...

Yes you could. During a 'fight' you cannot make the assumption that the person is trying to overcome you without injuring you. If someone is trying, or has taken you to the ground the rational assumption is that they are trying to hurt you in some fashion. Additionally, if you're armed then of course there is a weapon present in the situation. Now we are in a deadly force situation. Now we can go down a lot of rabbit trails with 'what-ifs' and differing laws from state to state, but the bottom line is if someone is trying to subdue you in a street fight/attack/mugging, the assumption can't be made that they are trying to do so without injuring you.

 

[Mou Meng Gung Fu]

So someone says that I said something which I actually didn't say, and that's not twisting my words. But when I ask someone what they said, I'm twisting their words. Okay, gotchu (lol). Please don't laugh with me. I wouldn't want you to break a hip. I think I might stop posting afterall. I know that's what you want. But I'm beginning to think that's what I want too. This place is a joke. I feel bad for the good folks who come here. You guys can have your lies. I'm going outside for some fresh air and a nice morning jog. Take care, grumpy old men.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I will wear that dislike GP with a smile on my face. You see that post you disliked? That's me being the aggressor.

Actually, that was you bordering on an ad hominem attack.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Well there are aggressive opinions, defensive opinions and neutral opinions then. So if MTalk isn't a competitive site, then maybe it shouldn't be promoted as such by its paying members. There is no need for aggression. It doesn't feel too good to be on the receiving end of an aggressive opinion, does it?

Opinions aren't aggressive. People's actions can be, but opinions are not.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I disagree.

I never said it was a funny one.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Last time I saw one mr downward elbow wound up on his back getting bashed.

That's what I'd expect more often if it's used against a proper double-leg.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

There is a difference between hitting them with someone on the fly if they have messed up and training something low percentage as your go to defence.

Agreed. But I never said I trained it as a go-to defense. I said it's a tool most of us already have, so it's something handy if it fits the situation. You may recall that you're the one who introduced the idea of a downward elbow in this conversation, not me.

 

[Tez3]

So someone says that I said something which I actually didn't say, and that's not twisting my words. But when I ask someone what they said, I'm twisting their words. Okay, gotchu (lol). Please don't laugh with me. I wouldn't want you to break a hip. I think I might stop posting afterall. I know that's what you want. But I'm beginning to think that's what I want to. This place is a joke.

Nope, it's a matter of supreme indifference to me whether you leave or stay, I love that you dish it out but act all sulky when you get it back ( and gently at that) Pop off to the QMs and draw out a sense of humour. It must be hard to be so righteous all the time. I'm not likely to break a hip, I have very strong bones and a sharp tongue which I haven't even had the chance to use yet.


Another song for you.

Still, makes a change from the kata arguments put forward by the non kata exponents.

 

[Headhunter]

Nah, that's not what I hear. Those are crickets chirping. That's the sound of you rubbing your fingertips together silently, because you have nothing to say. You can quote me, but you can't argue with what you quoted this time. You know I'm right. That's why you can't say anything. You say you've been doing this longer than I've been alive? Well no wonder you don't like me. That must piss you off (lol). Well get used to it friend. There's a whole generation of me out there, like it or not. That's the problem with old war vets. They're too stuck in their ways. You older guys think you just know it all. I can admit when I'm wrong. Why can't you? The world is different now. MA isn't what it used to be. In fact it's gotten better and better over the years. I'm proud to be one of the newer MAists in today's world. We've got internet. We've got access to all different kinds of training now. We can master techniques in half the time it took MAists back in the days.

Lol this is the funniest thing I've ever read

 

[Headhunter]

So someone says that I said something which I actually didn't say, and that's not twisting my words. But when I ask someone what they said, I'm twisting their words. Okay, gotchu (lol). Please don't laugh with me. I wouldn't want you to break a hip. I think I might stop posting afterall. I know that's what you want. But I'm beginning to think that's what I want too. This place is a joke. I feel bad for the good folks who come here. You guys can have your lies. I'm going outside for some fresh air and a nice morning jog. Take care, grumpy old men.

Thank god take care little boy

 

[drop bear]

That's what I'd expect more often if it's used against a proper double-leg.

Neither of our statements is really evidence of anything

 

[Kong Soo Do]

Your points have some merit and some silliness.

Yes, my points do have merit. Voice of experience. The silliness is yours alone as you are filtering what you read through inexperience and bias.

I mean water breaks? I dont think that is a determining factor of who is going to win a fight.

Didn't say it was a determining factor, those are your words. But it is a factor, those are my words. In sporting competitions you have breaks between rounds. That is a fact. There are no scheduled breaks when you're attacked in the parking lot. That is a fact. In competition, scheduled breaks are a good idea. You CAN get a drink. More importantly you can get some quick medical attention if needed and just as important, you can get advice from those that have been watching your opponent for weaknesses to exploit. Of course you don't get that during a mugging attempt. So don't be obtuse.

When we look at important factors of self defence. Big ones like how to actually fight. The little ones like rules and refs and corner people are not really worth focusing on.

That is your inexperience showing, they are quite important items to discuss on this topic. The honest fact is that you don't know anything substantial when it comes to self defense, so you don't actually know what the important factors are to discuss. If you would stop and simply listen and learn from those that DO know then you'd educate yourself in a new area. I've been telling you this since you first joined. If I had interest in what you do then I'd listen to you rather than try to tell you all about it. Since you continually try to compare something you know about, to something you have no knowledge on, you should first listen to those that DO know before going on and on about it.

If I dont train deescalation I need to do kata?

You can't seriously be that ignorant...can you?

 

[RTKDCMB]

.

The irony is that the song really is about the person she says is so vain.

 

[Paul_D]

Are you suggesting that MMA fighters can't avoid a street fight?

For SD I would use Threat and Awareness Evaluation, Coopers colour codes, Target Hardening, verbal deescalation and running away to avoid a fight.

I have deescalted a Road Rage incident just using The Fence.

What MMA skills would you use?

Are you suggesting MMA fighters can't defend themselves on the streets?

No more or no less that anyone else who trains for consensual fighting and not for SD. The vast majority of SD skill sets are non physical, and are not taught in sport fighting. I would agree it is easy to transfer those skill to a street fight yes absolutely yes. But agreeing to fight people on the street has nothing to do with SD.

Even when things do get physical, the skills required for consensual fighting are not an ideal fit for SD. Can some high level elite althletes make them work, yes, but if we all had to be high level elite althletes in order to defend ourselves we may as well all just stay home.

Even if you are a high level elite sports fighter it still doesn't mean you have any of the tools needed for SD. Miaquel Falco and Kaue Mena were very skill at consensual fighting, but had no SD skills to avoid their situation, prevent it from escalating, or dealing with multiple opponent or weapons once things did turn violent. So its certainly not "easy".

There are of course some skills which are universal, a good punch is of course always a good punch.

And are you suggesting that a MMA fighter is incapable of using a weapon properly?

Knives not so much as any idiot can use a knife, but he others yes. I would much rather face an MMA fighter with a baton on the street than face him unarmed in the ring.

I know nothing about guns, but I am sure the people here who do, will tell you that an untrained person with a gun is not going to be anything like as effective as they think they will be under the stress of a live situation.

 

[Hanzou]

You have talked countless times on this forum about your experience in the martial arts but no one on here has ever seen you physically do any martial arts training, demonstrate any techniques or seen footage of you competing in competitions or fighting in the street, Seems like anecdotal evidence to me.

Only if my own personal skill was the topic of the discussion. I tend to not brag about my personal abilities. Instead, I simply discuss what I've observed from traditional MA and modern MA/Combat sports.

 

[Paul_D]

You can't seriously be that ignorant...can you?

He isn't, he just chooses to be deliberately obtuse.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Neither of our statements is really evidence of anything

Agreed, in the case of my statement. Yours, however, has the potential to be evidence that a downward elbow against a double-leg can have a bad result. On its own, it's unsubstantiated anecdotal evidence, despite the reasonably reliable source, and before I could give it a lot of credence, I'd have to get details. So, as it stands it is weak evidence only really useful if it gives us a chance to look for something contrary to our expectation (which it doesn't provide), but it is evidence.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

The irony is that the song really is about the person she says is so vain.

I've always loved the irony of the line, "You probably think this song is about you, don't you?"