Why do TMAs have more difficulty in the ring/octagon?

[mook jong man]

Agreed. He was certainly leading Bas in that interview. I mean Bas would probably have said the same thing if Ninja girl had said she would bite him if he had her in a neck hold. Sure, but that didn't stop him telling us that a bite to the chest area was a way to escape in a street scenario.
:asian:

It's just not from that interview , he's got previous form in running down Kung Fu.
The man is an ignorant wanker.

 

[K-man]

It's just not from that interview , he's got previous form in running down Kung Fu.
The man is an ignorant wanker.

Hey! What's wrong with running down Kung Fu? Everyone round here seems to be doing it. I was beginning to think that must be a new game.

But seriously, he is just one of the "if it's not MMA, it sucks" brigade.
:asian:

 

[Hanzou]

Yes, but don't take what he said out of context. If an attacker is in a dominant position like Bas said with a choke, and some one goes for his eyes Bas said he can break their neck, and I have no doubt he could. Ninja girl was obviously pissing him off with her comments. That does not mean that the eyes aren't a valid target in the situations I described. Even in the situation Bas was talking about with the chokes, obviously attacking the eyes or groin alone may not succeed in securing your release but after relieving the pressure of the choke they are options you can use.

Then you have the man himself. He is big and strong and able to take considerable pain. Ninja girl was obviously just plain unrealistic to believe what she was saying. In a SD situation for females in particular, eyes are a legitimate target but every response has to be appropriate. I'd be interested to hear Brian's response to what Bas said.

Going for an eye gouge in an inferior position is crazy even if the guy isn't as big as Bas.

It just doesn't work against a grappler.

BTW, when did the effectiveness of martial arts come down to ball grabs and eye gouges?

 

[Steve]

It's just not from that interview , he's got previous form in running down Kung Fu.
The man is an ignorant wanker.

Yeah, I agree completely that Boztepe's an... wait. What? Bas Rutten???? That's crazy talk.

 

[K-man]

Yeah, I agree completely that Boztepe's an... wait. What? Bas Rutten???? That's crazy talk.

Hmm! Perhaps you misread mook's post?

Utmost respect for Bas Rutten , but I think that Joe Rogan is one vile arrogant human being.

 

[Hanzou]

I was only speculating on whether or not the rules of MMA make a difference, and who may have an advantage in a 'street fight', and given that there are many folks far more knowledgeable and experienced than me on here and they can't agree on it I think it's safe to say that the subject is up for debate!

Well think about it; Do the rules of boxing make boxers any less of a dangerous fighter? I've seen quite a few instances where boxers can knock someone out as easily in the street as the ring. Why? Because the basic fight mechanics allowed in the boxing ring work well in a fight.

Those mechanics are;

1. Giving and taking blows to the body.
2. Evasive head and body movements.
3. Keeping hands up at all times.
4. Simple combinations and few techniques.
5. Footwork
6. Timing and reflexes developed through constant sparring.

The next revolution in MMA is going to be the full implementation of boxing mechanics into MMA. Just watch.

 

[Tez3]

Thank you Steve, missed ya x
Ah, Joe Rogan, last year after comments he made about Rosi Sexton while commentating on her fight which she later called him on, his 'fans' sent hundreds of abusive tweets as well as posting hundreds of threatening and insulting comments on her FB site. It was disgusting. Rogan did nothing to make the situation any better, I believe he could have if he'd wanted to. It was a nasty experience for her which actually left a mark, however confident you are or even used to comments that sort of bombardment was extremely hurtful.
I think the MMA v TMA argument was where I originally came in all those years ago, nice to see the same arguments still hanging in there, missed the old eye gouge one roflmao. Just reminder to lick your finger before poking someone in the eye so that the eyeball doesn't stick to your finger........

 

[K-man]

Going for an eye gouge in an inferior position is crazy even if the guy isn't as big as Bas.

It just doesn't work against a grappler.

BTW, when did the effectiveness of martial arts come down to ball grabs and eye gouges?

What exactly are you trying to say? The person going for the eyes wasn't in a position to even reach the eyes. No different to saying you can't shoot me if you don't have a gun. Almost the same in the second video. No matter what you try to do on the ground against a specialist grappler will be extremely difficult even if you have a reasonable amount of training. But no one is saying that eye gouges or groin grabs are the number one means of defence.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EItM4pSChjw

And this is one of the first things we teach in Krav.

 

[Hanzou]

It's just not from that interview , he's got previous form in running down Kung Fu.
The man is an ignorant wanker.

He ran down Kung Fu because the exponents disparage MMA, and then end up fighting just like MMA guys.

Example:

 

[drop bear]

No sorry. I'm in that arguementive mood again.

I'm assuming by poking to the eye you are really talking about a strike to the eye which is quite legitimate but not really all that practical, not because I might hurt my finger but because you will instinctively move to protect your eyes. Therein is the first benefit. I will utilise your flinch response as a distraction. If I actually make contact, that's a bonus.

It's actually in grappling that the eyes become valid and useful targets. Grabbing the head with fingers in the eye sockets is standard fare, low risk (to me) and extremely effective.

Now to your questions. Because I don't actually care if my strike reaches the eye it is still the best target for me. There is no other target that will give me the same response with the added benefit if I actually connect. So I will most likely target the eyes regardless of other targets. Then of course, from a grappling perspective, there are numerous places on the head that give good control but none better than the eyes or eye sockets, when you really want to grab and control.
:asian:

Eye gouge control vs chin control?

 

[mook jong man]

He ran down Kung Fu because the exponents disparage MMA, and then end up fighting just like MMA guys.

Example:

Correction You Tube Boy , beginner exponents end up fighting just like MMA guys.
And the bloke is still an ignorant wanker , but I can see I am talking to a hard core fan.

 

[K-man]

Eye gouge control vs chin control?

Both equally valid. Whatever you can reach. Given a choice I go for the chin as it gives better leverage. To bring the head up for a choke the eye sockets work well, especially if the guy doesn't have hair.
:asian:

 

[Hanzou]

Correction You Tube Boy , beginner exponents end up fighting just like MMA guys.
And the bloke is still an ignorant wanker , but I can see I am talking to a hard core fan.

Well not really, because we see the same thing over and over again;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLVjwGKXjH8&feature=youtu.be

At what point do we have enough evidence to draw a conclusion?

 

[drop bear]

Yes, mma has changed quite a bit MJS in that you never see pure BJJ guy in the ring anymore at least not at the UFC level. At the very least they have added boxing or muay thai to their arsenal to draw on.

And more importantly have upgraded their grappling with other systems as well.

 

[mook jong man]

Well not really, because we see the same thing over and over again;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLVjwGKXjH8&feature=youtu.be

At what point do we have enough evidence to draw a conclusion?

You need to get yourself a girlfriend mate , you really do spend a hell of a lot of time trawling through Wing Chun videos don't you.

 

[Steve]

Hmm! Perhaps you misread mook's post?

Well, that's presuming the worst. If you guys split things up over 5 or 6 posts, how's a simple guy like me supposed to keep up!

He ran down Kung Fu because the exponents disparage MMA, and then end up fighting just like MMA guys.

Example:

It goes both ways. We all have a team to support.

Correction You Tube Boy , beginner exponents end up fighting just like MMA guys.
And the bloke is still an ignorant wanker , but I can see I am talking to a hard core fan.

This is getting close to crossing a line.

And more importantly have upgraded their grappling with other systems as well.

Yes! Not an MMA thing, really, but a curiosity and willingness to expirement, adapt and incorporate techniques. As I said earlier, this is the mentality that, IMO makes all the difference. What I would call "TMA" really represents a training mentality that values consistency over efficacy. TMA is about doing things the way your instructor does them, who does things the way HIS instructor did them, back as far as possible. MMA (or really, more of a competitive mindset) values what works over where they learn it. Most MMA athletes would have no problem incorporating any technique that works, regardless of where it comes from.

You need to get yourself a girlfriend mate , you really do spend a hell of a lot of time trawling through Wing Chun videos don't you.

This is definitely getting close to the line. Could you please chill out before you get the thread locked? Thanks!

 

[Hanzou]

You need to get yourself a girlfriend mate , you really do spend a hell of a lot of time trawling through Wing Chun videos don't you.

Just FYI, those videos weren't all about Wing Chun, it showed several Kung Fu styles in a sparring or fighting format across regions, eras, and nationalities, and it all looked very similar. Yet it looked nothing like the popular image of how a Kung Fu stylist fights, how Kung Fu is portrayed in MA magazines, or how Kung Fu looks in its forms.

So instead of silly personal attacks, could you please address the evidence shown in those videos, and why they support Joe Rogan's assertion about Kung Fu?

 

[drop bear]

Well, that's presuming the worst. If you guys split things up over 5 or 6 posts, how's a simple guy like me supposed to keep up!

It goes both ways. We all have a team to support.

This is getting close to crossing a line.

Yes! Not an MMA thing, really, but a curiosity and willingness to expirement, adapt and incorporate techniques. As I said earlier, this is the mentality that, IMO makes all the difference. What I would call "TMA" really represents a training mentality that values consistency over efficacy. TMA is about doing things the way your instructor does them, who does things the way HIS instructor did them, back as far as possible. MMA (or really, more of a competitive mindset) values what works over where they learn it. Most MMA athletes would have no problem incorporating any technique that works, regardless of where it comes from.

This is definitely getting close to the line. Could you please chill out before you get the thread locked? Thanks!

Yeah I would be interested to see how metamoris does or does not resemble 90s style GJJ
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4pjNl57NHRs

 

[Steve]

Yeah I would be interested to see how metamoris does or does not resemble 90s style GJJ
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4pjNl57NHRs

Help me out. What do you mean by 90s style GJJ?

 

[drop bear]

Help me out. What do you mean by 90s style GJJ?

A lot more of the straight guard game. Rather than the more top dominant wrestling game. I think 90s been was less active as well.

Randomly picked.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EUNkDacnDrM

Maybe just a more transitional game these days.