I'm no expert on it either, but I have to wonder...how many schools offer just MMA? How many offer both a MMA class which is designed for the ring, as well as a self defense class? For those that did offer both, if they are out there, how many students take part in the SD portion?
UFC/MMA: Rigged game with bias? Thoughts wanted!
- Thread starter neoinarien
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I'm no expert on it either, but I have to wonder...how many schools offer just MMA? How many offer both a MMA class which is designed for the ring, as well as a self defense class? For those that did offer both, if they are out there, how many students take part in the SD portion?
neoinarien
Yellow Belt
No clue. My wife used to train MMA, albeit, not very committed (though her school was very hardcore and has helped train several UFC fighters). She says that she was never taught groin shots, gouges, etc (again, she may have missed those classes). I'll ask my father in law who goes there quite often.
Odin
2nd Black Belt
Whats this another 'MMA is a sport' thread?...come on people get over it.
Its a Sport.
The UFC is not the end all of MMA.
MMA is its own style.
These are Professional fighters who are paid a lot of money to do what they do, im pretty sure if there was a secret technique out there somewhere someone would have used it, we're talking $500,000 a fight here for top end fighters, these men are not playing about, these men are also somewhat open minded, just have a look at thier training techniques, i recently saw a video of Wanderlie 'Snorkle' training, these men are open to new ideas if it makes them a better fighter, if they felt there was something missing from there arsenal that could be filled with a TMA technique then belive me they would learn it and use, does any one really believe that fighters havent thought about pressure points? or any of the techniques mentioned above? trust me they have and they have been tested..more often then not it seems they dont work.
Lets leave it as that.
Its a Sport.
The UFC is not the end all of MMA.
MMA is its own style.
These are Professional fighters who are paid a lot of money to do what they do, im pretty sure if there was a secret technique out there somewhere someone would have used it, we're talking $500,000 a fight here for top end fighters, these men are not playing about, these men are also somewhat open minded, just have a look at thier training techniques, i recently saw a video of Wanderlie 'Snorkle' training, these men are open to new ideas if it makes them a better fighter, if they felt there was something missing from there arsenal that could be filled with a TMA technique then belive me they would learn it and use, does any one really believe that fighters havent thought about pressure points? or any of the techniques mentioned above? trust me they have and they have been tested..more often then not it seems they dont work.
Lets leave it as that.
Dave Leverich
Black Belt
I have found that some pressure points work, head/arm fist grind into the neck etc. But it's obvious ones, no dim mak or other strange ones. Like the MT kick to the leg, is hitting a pressure point (aka, one of 3 on every muscle), although we also roll our legs to avoid/spread out that impact too.
But yeah, I'm not running in there with pokey fingertips either heh.
I think a big problem is the public still not being informed about exactly what MMA has evolved into from it's NHB forefather.
But yeah, I'm not running in there with pokey fingertips either heh.
I think a big problem is the public still not being informed about exactly what MMA has evolved into from it's NHB forefather.
Is MMA a rigged game with bias? No - it's a sport with rules (that each promotion sets) to make as safe and spectator friendly event as can be managed with as few rules as possible to satisfy the purists and curiosity of who is the best.
If TMAists are relying of eye gouges, fish hooks, biting etc to win a SD situation then I'd argue your time would be better spent practicing gross motor movements that have a higher probability of success and can actually be trained with any real repitition to be used.
"On the streets we don't rise to our expectations, we fall back on our training" - I don't know who said it or where I first saw it but those are words I tend to live by.
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Now, as to the digression of this thread....
I agree with 99% of what Tez has said (as is usual) but I don't fully agree with the statement that MMA is only a sport (and not SD or anything else).
5 years ago that may have been the case when you didn't really have any fully MIXED MAists - you had people that specialized in one or maybe two TMAs and cross trained.
I don't think that is the case any more. More and more often people are training the complete package from Standup long range, to close range to clinch to throws and take downs to ground and pound to submission. More often than not this is now occuring in the same facility. More and more you are also seeing clubs that don't have separate classes for each aspect of the fight game, you are seeing scheduled classes of varrying durations just on MMA - from start to finish.
In my opinion MMA has evolved from purely a sport to an art of it's own.
In my mind competitive MMA is like the contact or sport side of Karate (think Kyokushin or NSKA) or the competitve side of Judo (the clubs I've trained in the sure was a difference between what was done on the Tatami in the Dojo and what would be allowed at Provincial / National / International competition) or the sport side of BJJ, etc etc.
5 years ago or more was MMA only a sport? I'd say yes for sure. Nowadays, I'd say no.
If TMAists are relying of eye gouges, fish hooks, biting etc to win a SD situation then I'd argue your time would be better spent practicing gross motor movements that have a higher probability of success and can actually be trained with any real repitition to be used.
"On the streets we don't rise to our expectations, we fall back on our training" - I don't know who said it or where I first saw it but those are words I tend to live by.
------------
Now, as to the digression of this thread....
I agree with 99% of what Tez has said (as is usual) but I don't fully agree with the statement that MMA is only a sport (and not SD or anything else).
5 years ago that may have been the case when you didn't really have any fully MIXED MAists - you had people that specialized in one or maybe two TMAs and cross trained.
I don't think that is the case any more. More and more often people are training the complete package from Standup long range, to close range to clinch to throws and take downs to ground and pound to submission. More often than not this is now occuring in the same facility. More and more you are also seeing clubs that don't have separate classes for each aspect of the fight game, you are seeing scheduled classes of varrying durations just on MMA - from start to finish.
In my opinion MMA has evolved from purely a sport to an art of it's own.
In my mind competitive MMA is like the contact or sport side of Karate (think Kyokushin or NSKA) or the competitve side of Judo (the clubs I've trained in the sure was a difference between what was done on the Tatami in the Dojo and what would be allowed at Provincial / National / International competition) or the sport side of BJJ, etc etc.
5 years ago or more was MMA only a sport? I'd say yes for sure. Nowadays, I'd say no.
I think I was arguing more that MMA shouldn't be taught purely as a self defence system, that it should't be advertised by instructors as something that will definately be the thing that gets you out of that deadly confrontation when what they are actually teaching is for competitions. I agree totally that we have people coming up now that train the whole package, that's how we teach it in our club. However specific SD classes are separate from the MMA classes. MMA is a style which is sport based but there are many applications that are useful for SD of course as there are ( and has been said by others) in TMAs!
I really wanted to get away from the premise that the MMA you see in the promotions is not what you should be thinking is the ultimate system of SD/fighting which sadly some do. That's why you get the pub boast of "yeah I'm a Cage fighter me I can take anyone!" It should be seen for what it is .. a sport.
People who really do "Cage fighting" rarely say they do btw they always say they do MMA!
I'd like to see MMA take it's place in martial arts along side MA such as Pictons mentions, accepted as an equal style.
I really wanted to get away from the premise that the MMA you see in the promotions is not what you should be thinking is the ultimate system of SD/fighting which sadly some do. That's why you get the pub boast of "yeah I'm a Cage fighter me I can take anyone!" It should be seen for what it is .. a sport.
People who really do "Cage fighting" rarely say they do btw they always say they do MMA!
I'd like to see MMA take it's place in martial arts along side MA such as Pictons mentions, accepted as an equal style.
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