Transgenders in martial arts

[Steve]

The bad grammar was intentional to suggest that even an uneducated simpleton could grasp this basic concept - Feeling that you are something does NOT automatically make you that thing. Furthermore, it is not my responsibility to play into someone's delusion by referring to them in ways that reinforce it.

If it makes you feel all warm, tolerant, and politically correct to do so..... then do it. You refer to my attitude as "ignorant", you are entitled to your opinion. Mine is that allowing everybody to make up an imaginary identity is ignorant

Just as long as you recognize the difference between personal opinion and professional obligation, you're entitled to believe whatever you want. Mostly.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

The bad grammar was intentional to suggest that even an uneducated simpleton could grasp this basic concept - Feeling that you are something does NOT automatically make you that thing. Furthermore, it is not my responsibility to play into someone's delusion by referring to them in ways that reinforce it.

If it makes you feel all warm, tolerant, and politically correct to do so..... then do it. You refer to my attitude as "ignorant", you are entitled to your opinion. Mine is that allowing everybody to make up an imaginary identity is ignorant

There's actually some science that contradicts your simplistic view. It's entirely possible for someone to have "male" genetics and be physically female. It's also possible for their genitalia to develop male without their brain doing so. Look up the masculinization process.

 

[Steve]

There's actually some science that contradicts your simplistic view. It's entirely possible for someone to have "male" genetics and be physically female. It's also possible for their genitalia to develop male without their brain doing so. Look up the masculinization process.

Hormones do 90% of the work. The surgery is really just a finishing touch.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Hormones do 90% of the work. The surgery is really just a finishing touch.

And hormones are responsible for a large part of the masculinization process in a fetus, as well. They are more potent in their role at that point, of course, because the body (including the brain) is still forming.

 

[JR 137]

I understand people having concerns about unfair advantage when it comes to people who are competing at a very elite level where small advantages can make a big difference. In that case, it makes sense to me that an organization might want to do some research to compare the athletic performance of transgender women who have transitioned (taking hormones, etc) with the athletic performance of highly athletic women in their weight class. If they find that there's a significant advantage, just because of them having had gone through male puberty, then maybe the organization will set a handicap or something.

But elite competition is a separate issue from just taking a class and practicing together. In the latter case, I really wouldn't see what the big deal is with that. They're just trying to learn, same as you.

The IOC has addressed the issue. The athlete has had to been on hormone therapy for a certain length of time (possibly 2 years, but don't hold me to that), and has to have certain hormone levels in their blood.

They've studied it scientifically. The IOC has practically unlimited money and access to the very best experts. I don't think it's been addressed by major sports such as NFL, NBA, etc. Probably because they haven't had to (yet anyway). I'm sure when the time comes, they'll probably follow the IOC's policies closely and tweak whatever is necessary.

 

[Saheim]

Just as long as you recognize the difference between personal opinion and professional obligation, you're entitled to believe whatever you want. Mostly.

Please explain what you mean by "professional obligation". I am not an instructor, but if I was I would reserve the right to exclude anatomical males from an all female class as "trans" is not listed as a protected status.

I'm also curious about the "mostly". What is it that is excluded from personal beliefs I am entitled to?

I do realize there are genuine medical issues regarding gender. I also realize that political correctness has made it taboo to label these conditions as an "abnormality" which has driven society to glamorize and encourage acting on these DEFECTS rather than treating them. To the point now, we are expected to praise someone's bravery for embracing their condition rather than seeking to correct it. We are also expected to allow males into areas that are normally off limits to them simply because they either have, think they have, or claim to have one of these conditions. It baffles me that so many people do not understand the insanity here.

I use the words "abnormality" and "defect" because ANY behavior which is counter to the continuance of your species IS an abnormality/defect.

 

[Steve]

Ill explain more what I meant when I have a moment and a keyboard.

 

[Ironbear24]

Please explain what you mean by "professional obligation". I am not an instructor, but if I was I would reserve the right to exclude anatomical males from an all female class as "trans" is not listed as a protected status.

So what if they were post op and had all the female anatomy then? Would you let them in then?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Please explain what you mean by "professional obligation". I am not an instructor, but if I was I would reserve the right to exclude anatomical males from an all female class as "trans" is not listed as a protected status.

I'm also curious about the "mostly". What is it that is excluded from personal beliefs I am entitled to?

I do realize there are genuine medical issues regarding gender. I also realize that political correctness has made it taboo to label these conditions as an "abnormality" which has driven society to glamorize and encourage acting on these DEFECTS rather than treating them. To the point now, we are expected to praise someone's bravery for embracing their condition rather than seeking to correct it. We are also expected to allow males into areas that are normally off limits to them simply because they either have, think they have, or claim to have one of these conditions. It baffles me that so many people do not understand the insanity here.

I use the words "abnormality" and "defect" because ANY behavior which is counter to the continuance of your species IS an abnormality/defect.

That's precisely the kind of language that was once used (even within the psychological community) to describe homosexuality. We understand more of the processes involved now, and realize these are not necessarily problems that require correction.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

So what if they were post op and had all the female anatomy then? Would you let them in then?

Sure. At that point, what would be the reason not to?

 

[Ironbear24]

That's precisely the kind of language that was once used (even within the psychological community) to describe homosexuality. We understand more of the processes involved now, and realize these are not necessarily problems that require correction.

Because there is nothing to correct, homosexuality as far the knowledgeable people know, such as the AMA and APA oth say that reparative therapy causes more damage than actually fixing anything.

Most problems gay people have seem to be from their family and much of society treating them like a pile of crap. Those things are enough to give anyone problems.

Sure. At that point, what would be the reason not to?

Yeah, but some would still not let them in. Many people don't want anything to do with transgendered people. I myself don't understand much about them, but I will never hate anyone for something that has no negative impact on me. Or in this case refuse them service.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Because there is nothing to correct, homosexuality as far the knowledgeable people know, such as the AMA and APA oth say that reparative therapy causes more damage than actually fixing anything.

Most problems gay people have seem to be from their family and much of society treating them like a pile of crap. Those things are enough to give anyone problems.



Yeah, but some would still not let them in. Many people don't want anything to do with transgendered people. I myself don't understand much about them, but I will never hate anyone for something that has no negative impact on me. Or in this case refuse them service.

That last part is the crux, to me. I know people who get very worked up in opposition to transgender rights, and I've never found one who put forth a reasonable argument against them. Some misunderstand gender identity as a mere issue of self-perception (which it may be in some cases, but certainly isn't in all). Even if that were true, where is the rationale in opposing them? It's not harming anyone that I can see. There are some valid issues to be discussed, but the vitriol is unhelpful.

 

[Ironbear24]

Please explain what you mean by "professional obligation". I am not an instructor, but if I was I would reserve the right to exclude anatomical males from an all female class as "trans" is not listed as a protected status.

I'm also curious about the "mostly". What is it that is excluded from personal beliefs I am entitled to?

I do realize there are genuine medical issues regarding gender. I also realize that political correctness has made it taboo to label these conditions as an "abnormality" which has driven society to glamorize and encourage acting on these DEFECTS rather than treating them. To the point now, we are expected to praise someone's bravery for embracing their condition rather than seeking to correct it. We are also expected to allow males into areas that are normally off limits to them simply because they either have, think they have, or claim to have one of these conditions. It baffles me that so many people do not understand the insanity here.

I use the words "abnormality" and "defect" because ANY behavior which is counter to the continuance of your species IS an abnormality/defect.

How exactly would this end the species? For that to happen every single person would need to suddenly become transgendered and that is just impossible.

You would be arguing an impossible premise.

 

[Ironbear24]

Some misunderstand gender identity as a mere issue of self-perception

I might be doing that myself to be honest. I don't mean to do it, I just haven't experienced it

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I might be doing that myself to be honest. I don't mean to do it, I just haven't experienced it

I think it's a difficult concept to grasp. I really don't comprehend how someone can be physically male and perceive themselves as female. But that's perhaps because to me they are the same thing. This might be one of those areas that's just that difficult to comprehend. What I do know is that there's more than just psychological perception at work, at least in a portion of transgender people (perhaps all - the science on this is too new and too incomplete to answer that yet).

 

[O'Malley]

Please explain what you mean by "professional obligation". I am not an instructor, but if I was I would reserve the right to exclude anatomical males from an all female class as "trans" is not listed as a protected status.

I'm also curious about the "mostly". What is it that is excluded from personal beliefs I am entitled to?

I do realize there are genuine medical issues regarding gender. I also realize that political correctness has made it taboo to label these conditions as an "abnormality" which has driven society to glamorize and encourage acting on these DEFECTS rather than treating them. To the point now, we are expected to praise someone's bravery for embracing their condition rather than seeking to correct it. We are also expected to allow males into areas that are normally off limits to them simply because they either have, think they have, or claim to have one of these conditions. It baffles me that so many people do not understand the insanity here.

I use the words "abnormality" and "defect" because ANY behavior which is counter to the continuance of your species IS an abnormality/defect.

Separating males and females in social settings is actually a behavior that's far more detrimental to the continuance of the species than letting a minority choose their sexual identity. As is ignorance.

 

[Buka]

I can easily identify with them. I've long know I was Wyatt Earp trapped in Barney Fife's body. But my friends just laughed.

 

[Ironbear24]

I can easily identify with them. I've long know I was Wyatt Earp trapped in Barney Fife's body. But my friends just laughed.

You never fail to make me laugh.

 

[drop bear]

I wish there was a handy term that worked in US English like that, because I'm pretty lousy with names, too. "Hey, you" is as close as I can get, and students seem to magically grow names about 3 months in.

Mate.

 

[Danny T]

I wish there was a handy term that worked in US English like that, because I'm pretty lousy with names, too. "Hey, you" is as close as I can get, and students seem to magically grow names about 3 months in.

'buddy'
'my friend'