Introducing women to Martial Arts

[Dirty Dog]

I disagree, I think you can discover things you love by trying them.

Of course. Nobody said that was not a perfectly valid way. So take your strawman and put it back in the cornfield.

It's simply not the ONLY way.

I also think it's concerning and inappropriate for you to make baseless, libelous accusations of me, when all I am doing is asking for suggestions on how to introduce a topic to someone.

That is not what you're asking. You can introduce the subject by TALKING. Saying things like "Have you ever tried XXXX? Would you like to?"

I hope you never advertised anything, or promoted anything, or ever suggested anything to anyone at any point in your life, because by your logic that would be manipulative.

I don't advertise. Never have. I also don't go around trying to push people to try things. If someone expresses any interest, I will talk to them and invite them to come try a class. If they don't show any interest, I don't try to convince them.

It's even more concerning for you to assume what has or hasn't been said between us, or what I plan on saying. Who are you to assume that I wouldn't ask if her she's interested first?

It's not an assumption. I read the thread before I posted (because that's how this should work...).
When Monkey Turned Wolf asked if you had asked this person if they had any interest, your reply was:

Well, certainly I will be having that conversation

Here's another quote, from another of your posts:

I don't know that she isn't interested in martial arts, that's why I am making the suggestion in the first place.

And here:

I'll find out after I suggest it, won't I?

So clearly, you have not. Because you SAID you had not. Repeatedly.

You do not need any help asking her if she's interested. You just ask. What you've described in this thread is a desire to get her to give you the answer you have already decided is right.

 

[Nobufusa]

Of course. Nobody said that was not a perfectly valid way. So take your strawman and put it back in the cornfield.

It's simply not the ONLY way.

Never said anything was the "ONLY" way, so you can take your strawman and put it back in the cornfield.

That is not what you're asking. You can introduce the subject by TALKING. Saying things like "Have you ever tried XXXX? Would you like to?"

So, I stated, as you quoted me multiple times, that I would be talking to her first. So, you can take THAT strawman and put it back in the cornfield too.

I don't advertise. Never have. I also don't go around trying to push people to try things. If someone expresses any interest, I will talk to them and invite them to come try a class. If they don't show any interest, I don't try to convince them.

Giving someone a book isn't pushing people to do anything, it's a suggestion. They're totally free to throw away the book and never talk to me again, so that's another strawman you can put back in your cornfield.

I also doubt that you don't advertise at all, since your profile picture is a self-promoting advertisement of your board breaking skills (not that there is anything wrong with that)

It's not an assumption. I read the thread before I posted (because that's how this should work...).
When Monkey Turned Wolf asked if you had asked this person if they had any interest, your reply was:

Here's another quote, from another of your posts:

And here:

So clearly, you have not. Because you SAID you had not. Repeatedly.

You do not need any help asking her if she's interested. You just ask. What you've described in this thread is a desire to get her to give you the answer you have already decided is right.

Ok, I think there are better ways of suggesting ideas to people than just asking if they are interested in something they have no idea about it. There's nothing manipulative about that, and we could be having a totally cordial and amicable discussion about it, if you hadn't libelously and baselessly accused me of manipulative behavior, of which you aren't even sure of, and in fact, post quotes of mine that are evidence to the contrary of your assumption- that I would be talking to her before giving her anything.

What you are quoting is that I hadn't raised the conversation at all with her, so what exactly is manipulative? The fact that I hadn't mentioned anything to her yet is manipulative? And you know exactly what I am going to say to her- how exactly? You assume that I am not going to ask her if she's interested, and then say that's manipulative.

That's manipulative and very concerning.
Really you could have just saved yourself all of this trouble by simply suggesting "Ask her if she's interested first" instead of making libelous remarks on the assumption that I wouldn't. Very concerning behavior on your part.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

I also doubt that you don't advertise at all, since your profile picture is a self-promoting advertisement of your board breaking skills (not that there is anything wrong with that)

I've got no interest in getting in the middle of the arguments going on here (especially since I've said my piece) so won't address any of the rest of this. I just wanted to address this one statement.

I've been a member of this site for exactly 11 years as of tomorrow, probably longer before I created an account, and while dirty dog's mentioned he teaches at a YMCA (for free, so no money to be gained from advertising), I have never once seen him advertise his dojo/request people come down to train. And people come on here all the time, asking for recommendations in various states. Unless he's reaching out to people in private messages, if the purpose of his profile pic is to advertise, he sucks at it.

Edit: Thinking about it, I also can't recall him advertising for anything else.

 

[Buka]

I didn't say girls don't know anything about martial arts, I said this specific individual doesn't. Don't you dare put words in my mouth, your behavior is appalling and unacceptable.

I think that's a little harsh. Having a bad day? I hope it ends up being a nice one for you.

 

[Nobufusa]

I think that's a little harsh. Having a bad day? I hope it ends up being a nice one for you.

Thanks, you too. I don't think it's harsh, I think it's a perfectly reasonable response to him lying about what I said.

 

[Steve]

This thread has turned creepy and weird.

 

[Nobufusa]

This thread has turned creepy and weird.

Weird coming from you, since you just so happened to "like" the creepiest and weirdest comment on this thread.

 

[skribs]

Weird coming from you, since you just so happened to "like" the creepiest and weirdest comment on this thread.

I didn't see him like any of your comments.

 

[skribs]

Ok, I think there are better ways of suggesting ideas to people than just asking if they are interested in something they have no idea about it. There's nothing manipulative about that, and we could be having a totally cordial and amicable discussion about it, if you hadn't libelously and baselessly accused me of manipulative behavior, of which you aren't even sure of, and in fact, post quotes of mine that are evidence to the contrary of your assumption- that I would be talking to her before giving her anything.

What you are quoting is that I hadn't raised the conversation at all with her, so what exactly is manipulative? The fact that I hadn't mentioned anything to her yet is manipulative? And you know exactly what I am going to say to her- how exactly? You assume that I am not going to ask her if she's interested, and then say that's manipulative.

That's manipulative and very concerning.
Really you could have just saved yourself all of this trouble by simply suggesting "Ask her if she's interested first" instead of making libelous remarks on the assumption that I wouldn't. Very concerning behavior on your part.

You're making two very contradictory statements in this thread.

1. She doesn't know anything about martial arts -or- she doesn't like martial arts because she has bad information. (Hence why you need to educate her).
2. You have never talked to her about martial arts.

How can #1 be true if #2 is also true? How do you know what her knowledge and opinion of martial arts are, if you've never discussed it with her?

With #2 being true, we should invalidate point #1. You shouldn't know what she knows about the subject, unless you've discussed it with her. Unless of course you were spying on her.

But, let's assume you're not a stalker, and let's assume you're being truthful that you've never talked to her about martial arts. Then you can't know what her level of knowledge or opinion is. Yet, you assert that you do know. You assert that she's wrong. You assert that you know better than her. You've decided that she needs to be educated by you.

I'm about as far right as you can get and I hate modern feminism, but you are the poster child for "mansplaining".

 

[Nobufusa]

I also gave you a suggestion, and you rejected it, because apparently girls don't know anything about martial arts.

I never said girls don't know anything about martial arts. There you go again shamelessly lying and putting words in my mouth.

 

[Nobufusa]

You're making two very contradictory statements in this thread.

1. She doesn't know anything about martial arts -or- she doesn't like martial arts because she has bad information. (Hence why you need to educate her).
2. You have never talked to her about martial arts.

How can #1 be true if #2 is also true? How do you know what her knowledge and opinion of martial arts are, if you've never discussed it with her?

Well, because she's never done martial arts, I can safely assume she knows very little about it. Seems like a safe guess to me.

But, let's assume you're not a stalker, and let's assume you're being truthful that you've never talked to her about martial arts. Then you can't know what her level of knowledge or opinion is. Yet, you assert that you do know. You assert that she's wrong. You assert that you know better than her. You've decided that she needs to be educated by you.

Well, like I already said, someone who has never done something, probably won't have a very meaningful knowledge of it. Again, I feel like that's a safe assumption on my part.


"You assert that she's wrong."
I said nothing of the sort, there you go lying through your teeth again.

"I'm about as far right as you can get and I hate modern feminism, but you are the poster child for "mansplaining".
So asking for a book suggestion is mansplaining? Wow dude, you really are off the deep end.

 

[Nobufusa]

I didn't see him like any of your comments.

Precisely, my comments weren't creepy or weird. He liked the creepiest comment on the thread, which wasn't my comment.

 

[Nobufusa]

You've decided that she needs to be educated by you.

Nope. Wrong again. The only thing I decided was that it might be a good idea to suggest martial arts to her, and possibly gift her a book that might spark her interest, nothing more, nothing less. You can feel free to stop lying and assuming what my intentions are any time now.

 

[Nobufusa]

If you just assume she's not, and the reason she's not is because girls don't know martial arts, then you're only going to convince her of one thing: to avoid you.

I assume she doesn't know martial arts because she's never mentioned it, not in all of the things she's mentioned doing or have done, not because she is a girl. What a sexist assumption on your part.

 

[_Simon_]

Nope. Wrong again. The only thing I decided was that it might be a good idea to suggest martial arts to her, and possibly gift her a book that might spark her interest, nothing more, nothing less. You can feel free to stop lying and assuming what my intentions are any time now.

But...... why do you want her interested in martial arts?

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Precisely, my comments weren't creepy or weird. He liked the creepiest comment on the thread, which wasn't my comment.

If you feel the thread has gone creepy, especially since you've got all the useful answers you're likely to get, it's perfectly fine to just ignore the thread and stop commenting.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Thats kind of harsh. I love reading books, and it's not really homework because there's no assignment due, it's just a way to make the topic relevant to her.
I'll keep your sentiment in mind though, it's a worrying one. Hopefully she won't feel the same way you do.

I'm willing to bet you love reading books on topics that interest you. Even if it's a new topic to you, you probably don't grab a random book - you look for one that interests you. I know of nobody outside the martial arts who likes to read about the martial arts, so a book seems unlikely to create that interest.

If you compete, this friend might enjoy watching you compete. For some folks, that sparks an interest in training. Otherwise, if she's not interested, I don't think there's a way to start the interest. (Were it a romantic relationship, she might be inclined to train with you for a month to understand what interests you about it, but that seems unlikely for a less intimate relationship.)

 

[skribs]

I never said girls don't know anything about martial arts. There you go again shamelessly lying and putting words in my mouth.

From post #30 in this thread:
"When it comes to martial arts, I feel that, generally speaking, the public's general ideas are often wrong, or misinformed. They may see it as something violent, uninteresting, or unfeminine, without even trying it and realizing they might love it."

I'm not putting words in your mouth. You're putting words in your own mouth. I'm not lying about them. You're lying about not saying them. This is gaslighting at its finest. One reason you seem like a creep.

Well, because she's never done martial arts, I can safely assume she knows very little about it. Seems like a safe guess to me.

I assume she doesn't know martial arts because she's never mentioned it, not in all of the things she's mentioned doing or have done, not because she is a girl. What a sexist assumption on your part.

I'm willing to bet that everyone in your life has things they've done that you haven't been told about. Assuming she doesn't have the knowledge because she hasn't told you is a very narcissistic way of looking at the world.

Well, like I already said, someone who has never done something, probably won't have a very meaningful knowledge of it. Again, I feel like that's a safe assumption on my part.

Maybe, maybe not. But they may have opinions about it that are good or bad. And it makes sense to find them out before figuring out a gameplan to convince them.

"You assert that she's wrong."
I said nothing of the sort, there you go lying through your teeth again.

See above. You said it. It's in writing. You can't gaslight your way out of this one.

"I'm about as far right as you can get and I hate modern feminism, but you are the poster child for "mansplaining".
So asking for a book suggestion is mansplaining? Wow dude, you really are off the deep end.

No. Telling this girl "I think you should do martial arts, even though you're a girl, and I know you don't know anything about martial arts so here's a book" is mansplaining.

You accuse me of twisting your words, but yet you twist mine.

Precisely, my comments weren't creepy or weird. He liked the creepiest comment on the thread, which wasn't my comment.

You've essentially decided you know what this girl knows and doesn't know better than she does. You've decided you know what's best for her without even knowing her opinions on the subject. You've decided that it's your job to improve her life, when you don't even know her well enough to know if she likes or dislikes the subject you're talking about. You refuse to just ask her about it, and instead are looking for some sort of manipulative way to do so. And then you gaslight us. There isn't a single thing about this thread that isn't creepy.

Nope. Wrong again. The only thing I decided was that it might be a good idea to suggest martial arts to her, and possibly gift her a book that might spark her interest, nothing more, nothing less. You can feel free to stop lying and assuming what my intentions are any time now.

Then why did you refuse the suggestion of "Hey, what do you think of martial arts?" If your decision is to suggest it to her, then why not start with suggesting it to her?

The fact that you instead need a scheme to convince her that you know what's best for her, yes, that's creepy. Honestly at this point I'm a little bit scared for her safety.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

That's just untrue. There are so many people who got involved with an activity, because someone introduced the activity to them, or because someone they knew was involved with it, martial art or otherwise. What is with these pessimistic and negative outlooks??

Those people weren't spontaneously interested. Perhaps they saw a class, or had a little curiosity from having watched MA movies. Or they just liked how much fun it sounded like when a friend talked about the class they'd just been to.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Ok, so I shouldn't bother suggesting that she tries martial arts? Is that the takeaway lesson I understood from you? And no, I don't know that she isn't interested in martial arts, that's why I am making the suggestion in the first place.

If she says something like, "I wish I could....." and you think MA training would help with whatever that was ("get in shape", "meet new friends", or whatever), then you could suggest it. If you're just suggesting it because you think she should like it, why?

To be clear about my point, you haven't said at all why you think this particular person should be interested in or get particular benefit from MA. Something you posted gave me the idea it wasn't about fighting ability, so what is it about MA that makes it a particularly good choice for her?