Introducing women to Martial Arts

[Nobufusa]

Nobody's saying you can't get people interested or that you shouldn't bother trying. What people are saying is if the fuel isn't there, no amount of spark is going to light it. You can try and get them interested, and if they are, they'll start. If they're not, then continuing to push is going to push them further away from both martial arts and from you.

The only other option is to become a dictator of a small country and mandate that everyone takes martial arts. You might have some success doing that. Of course, then you'll be more likely to be dethroned if everyone knows martial arts.

It's not for you to decide or assume that the fuel isn't there. I am asking for suggestions on how one might go about introducing the idea. I am not forcing anyone, and if she decides it's not for her, I would leave it at that. You are quite literally saying that I shouldn't bother trying.

"You can try and get them interested, and if they are, they'll start"
That's really great advice! Any suggestions or tips on how to go about doing that?

 

[skribs]

Ok, so I shouldn't bother suggesting that she tries martial arts? Is that the takeaway lesson I understood from you? And no, I don't know that she isn't interested in martial arts, that's why I am making the suggestion in the first place.

You don't even know if she's interested or not? So what are you even trying to accomplish?

 

[skribs]

It's not for you to decide or assume that the fuel isn't there since you don't know the individual, and I do.

But you said you didn't know if she's interested in martial arts or not.

I am asking for suggestions on how one might go about introducing the idea.

"What do you think of martial arts?"

 

[Nobufusa]

You don't even know if she's interested or not? So what are you even trying to accomplish?

I'll find out after I suggest it, won't I? No help from you, thanks.

 

[skribs]

I'll find out after I suggest it, won't I? No help from you, thanks.

What was the point of asking the question if you're not going to listen to any of the answers?

 

[Nobufusa]

But you said you didn't know if she's interested in martial arts or not.

Whether or not she is interested is not the same thing at all as whether or not the fuel is there.


""What do you think of martial arts?""
Yes, let me ask someone who knows absolutely nothing about Martial Arts, or has any idea of what the benefits are of practicing martial arts, what they think of martial arts, that's brilliant. Meanwhile let me also go ask someone whose lived their entire life in Kansas what they think about Venice, Italy. You can't have a meaningful opinion about something you know nothing about.

 

[Nobufusa]

What was the point of asking the question if you're not going to listen to any of the answers?

You're not giving me an answer, you're telling me why I shouldn't bother suggesting that someone tries martial arts.

 

[skribs]

Yes, let me ask someone who knows absolutely nothing about Martial Arts, or has any idea of what the benefits are of practicing martial arts, what they think of martial arts, that's brilliant. Meanwhile let me also go ask someone whose lived their entire life in Kansas what they think about Venice, Italy. You can't have a meaningful opinion about something you know nothing about.

How do you know she knows nothing about martial arts? I'm sure she at least knows what martial arts is. Maybe she's even training and you don't know it.

You're not giving me an answer, you're telling me why I shouldn't bother suggesting that someone tries martial arts.

I'm saying don't get your hopes up. I'm saying don't do it in such a way that you will push them further away from martial arts. I also gave you a suggestion, and you rejected it, because apparently girls don't know anything about martial arts.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Whether or not she is interested is not the same thing at all as whether or not the fuel is there.


""What do you think of martial arts?""
Yes, let me ask someone who knows absolutely nothing about Martial Arts, or has any idea of what the benefits are of practicing martial arts, what they think of martial arts, that's brilliant. Meanwhile let me also go ask someone whose lived their entire life in Kansas what they think about Venice, Italy. You can't have a meaningful opinion about something you know nothing about.

Ummm..yes. That is literally the first thing to do. Ask if she wants to do it/what she thinks about it. You can absolutely also ask someone who's never been to Venice if they'd want to go there. That's kinda the most important thing when planning a vacation and/or move (which is the equivalent in your analogy).

A closer analogy though is asking someone "Hey do you want to try tennis?" I don't need someone to go about telling me the health benefits of tennis or giving me a book on Serena Williams or how tennis influenced X, Y, and Z. I already would have an idea, even if I never played tennis before, if it's something that sounds interesting.

 

[Nobufusa]

Ummm..yes. That is literally the first thing to do. Ask if she wants to do it/what she thinks about it. You can absolutely also ask someone who's never been to Venice if they'd want to go there. That's kinda the most important thing when planning a vacation and/or move (which is the equivalent in your analogy).

A closer analogy though is asking someone "Hey do you want to try tennis?" I don't need someone to go about telling me the health benefits of tennis or giving me a book on Serena Williams or how tennis influenced X, Y, and Z. I already would have an idea, even if I never played tennis before, if it's something that sounds interesting.

Your comments are much more reasonable than Skrib's, but at the same time, a person can't decide if they want to visit Venice or not unless they learn or know something about it.

When it comes to martial arts, I feel that, generally speaking, the public's general ideas are often wrong, or misinformed. They may see it as something violent, uninteresting, or unfeminine, without even trying it and realizing they might love it. If they gave an honest try after piquing their curiosity and decided it wasn't for them, I wouldn't push the topic further than that.

 

[Nobufusa]

How do you know she knows nothing about martial arts? I'm sure she at least knows what martial arts is. Maybe she's even training and you don't know it.

I'm saying don't get your hopes up. I'm saying don't do it in such a way that you will push them further away from martial arts. I also gave you a suggestion, and you rejected it, because apparently girls don't know anything about martial arts.

I didn't say girls don't know anything about martial arts, I said this specific individual doesn't. Don't you dare put words in my mouth, your behavior is appalling and unacceptable.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Your comments are much more reasonable than Skrib's, but at the same time, a person can't decide if they want to visit Venice or not unless they learn or know something about it.

When it comes to martial arts, I feel that, generally speaking, the public's general ideas are often wrong, or misinformed. They may see it as something violent, uninteresting, or unfeminine, without even trying it and realizing they might love it. If they gave an honest try after piquing their curiosity and decided it wasn't for them, I wouldn't push the topic further than that.

Yeah, but the first question is to find out their thoughts. Ask if their interested, if they say no, ask them why. That's the start of the conversation. If they want to learn more and get books on it, then you can continue there, but they may very well just shut you down. You're putting the cart before the horse a bit.

 

[Nobufusa]

Yeah, but the first question is to find out their thoughts. Ask if their interested, if they say no, ask them why. That's the start of the conversation. If they want to learn more and get books on it, then you can continue there, but they may very well just shut you down. You're putting the cart before the horse a bit.

Well, certainly I will be having that conversation, I just thought of a book as something to leave them with after that conversation, so that they can ponder it on their own time after I have introduced the idea. That way she won't feel the pressure to justify her position to someone and can learn about it and how it relates to her in a more solitary environment.
Are you saying I should gauge her reaction before introducing a book on the matter? I feel like that would be a given, it doesn't need to be stated.

 

[skribs]

Your comments are much more reasonable than Skrib's, but at the same time, a person can't decide if they want to visit Venice or not unless they learn or know something about it.

So people who live in Kansas don't know anything about Venice? Do people only know what you teach them about?

When it comes to martial arts, I feel that, generally speaking, the public's general ideas are often wrong, or misinformed. They may see it as something violent, uninteresting, or unfeminine, without even trying it and realizing they might love it. If they gave an honest try after piquing their curiosity and decided it wasn't for them, I wouldn't push the topic further than that.

And you would figure this out with "What do you think of martial arts?" Does she feel this way or not? Has she tried martial arts before or not?

You are making a lot of assumptions here about her. You should probably get that information before you make a fool of yourself.

If you go up to her and say "Here's a book about why you should do martial arts, because you're a girl and I know girls don't like martial arts because you don't think it's feminine enough", she'll probably just take that book, smack you on the head with it, and call you a sexist bigot.

If you go up to her and say, "What do you think of martial arts", she might have one of three attitudes:

• I love martial arts! In which case you can find out if she's training, and then you can have something in common to talk about. Or if she's not training but wants to, you can suggest your class.
• I don't really know much about martial arts. In which case you can start to try to generate that interest (unless you realize that it won't be generated).
• I'm not interested in martial arts. At this point, you could try to find out why, so you know whether or not to try to change her mind. For example, if she thinks it's unfeminine, then you can bring up strong women who do martial arts. Or if she's tried it and didn't like it, then probably just give up at that point.

The whole point of most of the answers in this thread are you're at least 2 steps ahead of where you should be. Step 1: Find out of she's interested or not. Step 2: find out why. Then, you can worry about trying to convince her or not. If you just assume she's not, and the reason she's not is because girls don't know martial arts, then you're only going to convince her of one thing: to avoid you.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Are you saying I should gauge her reaction before introducing a book on the matter? I feel like that would be a given, it doesn't need to be stated.

Close. I'm saying gauge her reaction before even deciding on a book. If she's interested, let her know you'll then find a book that would fit her. It would save you the effort beforehand of trying to pick one out, and allow you to better suit what exactly she's interested in.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Your comments are much more reasonable than Skrib's, but at the same time, a person can't decide if they want to visit Venice or not unless they learn or know something about it.

But they don't have to GO to Venice to know if they want to visit. They can probably decide just by looking at a few pictures.

By the same token, they don't have to go to a MA class to decide they are or are not interested.

It sounds like you're looking for ways to convince this woman to do something, without ever having asked her if it's something she would like to do.

That sort of manipulative behavior is concerning.

 

[Nobufusa]

But they don't have to GO to Venice to know if they want to visit. They can probably decide just by looking at a few pictures.

By the same token, they don't have to go to a MA class to decide they are or are not interested.

It sounds like you're looking for ways to convince this woman to do something, without ever having asked her if it's something she would like to do.

That sort of manipulative behavior is concerning.

I disagree, I think you can discover things you love by trying them.

I also think it's concerning and inappropriate for you to make baseless, libelous accusations of me, when all I am doing is asking for suggestions on how to introduce a topic to someone.

I hope you never advertised anything, or promoted anything, or ever suggested anything to anyone at any point in your life, because by your logic that would be manipulative.

It's even more concerning for you to assume what has or hasn't been said between us, or what I plan on saying. Who are you to assume that I wouldn't ask if her she's interested first?

Really incredible insight, gifting someone a book is now manipulative behavior.

To say that a certain kind of behavior is manipulative, that you baselessly assume to be the case, is in itself manipulative behavior, and very concerning. The fact is, you have no idea what I did, or didn't, or what I am going to ask her, so you calling something manipulative, which you don't even know is the case or not, is manipulative. Very concerning.

 

[Nobufusa]

Close. I'm saying gauge her reaction before even deciding on a book. If she's interested, let her know you'll then find a book that would fit her. It would save you the effort beforehand of trying to pick one out, and allow you to better suit what exactly she's interested in.

Thank you, appreciate your input. I will definitely keep it in mind.

 

[skribs]

I didn't say girls don't know anything about martial arts, I said this specific individual doesn't. Don't you dare put words in my mouth, your behavior is appalling and unacceptable.

You said you don't know what she thinks about martial arts. You also made this post about gender, as are the reasons you think she may be misinformed about martial arts (because she doesn't think it's feminine). Don't blame me. You brought gender in several times already.

Also, if your behavior in this thread is any indication, your best bet to get her interested in martial arts is to tell her that you hate martial arts.

 

[skribs]

Really incredible insight, gifting someone a book is now manipulative behavior.

Intent really matters when you're giving a gift.

I'll give you an example. My Mom was trying to convince me to go to a chiropractor to help with my chronic bronchitis. I did not believe that it would help, and instead dealt with licensed physicians. My mom then got me a gift card to her chiropractor. Yes, she did do it because she thought it would help. But really, she did it to manipulate me into following her belief that chiropractors can heal bronchitis.

If I had back problems or expressed an interest in finding a chiropractor, it would have been a lovely gift to receive. But it wasn't a gift. It was a manipulation.

It would be appropriate to gift her a martial arts book in a few circumstances:

• You know she likes martial arts
• You know she likes books that at least somewhat fit the genre (i.e. historical strong women non-fiction)
• She's on the fence about martial arts, because of reasons that the book addresses, and you think this might put her over the edge

It would be inappropriate to assume her disinterest and buy her a book to convince her that you know what's going to make her life better. Outside of assaulting her, I don't know there's anything you could do that would push her away from you faster than doing this.