Racism in Martial Arts

[Steve]

Race exclusive campaigns to combat racism seems counter productive.

Black lives matter isn't, as I understand it, race exclusive. It presumes that it is universally understood that other lives matter.

If I said, "tomatoes are fruit," I'm not suggesting that bananas are no longer fruit, or are less fruity than tomoatoes. Rather, I'm saying that, in a society where we value fruit, we often neglect to include tomatoes in that category.... at all. To the point where we imply (by our words or actions) that, when we say we value fruit, tomatoes aren't included.

 

[drop bear]

Black lives matter isn't, as I understand it, race exclusive. It presumes that it is universally understood that other lives matter.

If I said, "tomatoes are fruit," I'm not suggesting that bananas are no longer fruit, or are less fruity than tomoatoes. Rather, I'm saying that, in a society where we value fruit, we often neglect to include tomatoes in that category.... at all. To the point where we imply (by our words or actions) that, when we say we value fruit, tomatoes aren't included.

By the way have you heard bodycounts no lives matter?

A bit sweary to link here.

 

[Steve]

I haven't. Satire? Link?

 

[drop bear]

I haven't. Satire? Link?

No link. I will get banned. Deadly serious. Ice T is making a comeback.

 

[wingchun100]

I would probably do the same as you and let them know this is no place for this kind of talk or language. I have trained with men and women from a large number of backgrounds and can say I have never experienced anything like you described. Funny thing is that in the US most practitioners of Asian Martial Arts are not of Asian decent, so why would a racists in the US study a martial art from China, Japan, Korea, etc? Interesting they would train and trust, possibility with their life, an art created by someone so different from them that they are likely racist against that person.

Apparently they are racist against only certain folks. LOL

 

[wingchun100]

I've never encountered such a problem in the many martial arts schools I've trained at or visited. Just about all of them have been multi-racial with their student makeup and everybody respects each other and from my experience martial arts is all about honor and respecting others and so as I've said, I've never encountered such a problem in the martial arts world.

On the other hand, its somewhat silly now days how just about everything and anything can be called racist somehow or another. Even the game of Chess I've heard some people call it racist because its white vs black and since white goes first that its all about white privilege and all, as silly as that may be.

Yes, it is silly when they try to say certain things are racist. (Look up the Smiths song "Panic." They said it was racist because he wrote the lyrics "Hang the DJ," but if you listen to the song, he says, "The music they constantly play says nothing to me about my life." I think we can dislike a certain kind of music simply because we don't like the style, and not because we don't like the people.) However, in this case...I don't think there is any other label you can apply to what was said, especially when the N-word came out.

 

[PhotonGuy]

Yes, it is silly when they try to say certain things are racist. (Look up the Smiths song "Panic." They said it was racist because he wrote the lyrics "Hang the DJ," but if you listen to the song, he says, "The music they constantly play says nothing to me about my life." I think we can dislike a certain kind of music simply because we don't like the style, and not because we don't like the people.) However, in this case...I don't think there is any other label you can apply to what was said, especially when the N-word came out.

Heck one could even say the martial arts is racist with its ranking system in terms of the belt colors. Silly how just about everything and anything can be called racist.

 

[Steve]

Heck one could even say the martial arts is racist with its ranking system in terms of the belt colors. Silly how just about everything and anything can be called racist.

Wait. What?

 

[Ironbear24]

Wait. What?

Idk man. Some of the posts here are making me roll my eyes lol.

 

[Tez3]

Heck one could even say the martial arts is racist with its ranking system in terms of the belt colors. Silly how just about everything and anything can be called racist.

What on earth are you talking about? Belt colours can't be called racist, no sane sensible person would think racism and belts had anything to do with other. Do look up the words 'Race' and 'Racism' then understand that anything and everything cannot be called racist, in fact your remark comes across as coming from someone who hasn't had a racist remark or action aimed at them therefore shows little empathy or understanding what it's like to be the target of such despicable behaviour.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

What on earth are you talking about? Belt colours can't be called racist, no sane sensible person would think racism and belts had anything to do with other. Do look up the words 'Race' and 'Racism' then understand that anything and everything cannot be called racist, in fact your remark comes across as coming from someone who hasn't had a racist remark or action aimed at them therefore shows little empathy or understanding what it's like to be the target of such despicable behaviour.

I think he's referring to those folks who seem to think everything is a sideways reference to race. Since one of the belts is black and one is white (in some schools, that's all there are), someone could say, "Look! See - a lot of white belts, and just a few blacks. Y'all make people do all this stuff to keep them from being able to wear black like it's a bad thing!"

Now, we all know that's not what's going on. But I've heard actual arguments that weren't any less ludicrous.

 

[Tez3]

I think he's referring to those folks who seem to think everything is a sideways reference to race. Since one of the belts is black and one is white (in some schools, that's all there are), someone could say, "Look! See - a lot of white belts, and just a few blacks. Y'all make people do all this stuff to keep them from being able to wear black like it's a bad thing!"

Now, we all know that's not what's going on. But I've heard actual arguments that weren't any less ludicrous.

To be honest I haven't heard arguments like that, but while we do have our problems we don't have such a wide black/white divide here, we don't call black people who live here Black British people, they are just bog standard Brits like the rest of us LOL. When black solders and airmen arrived here during the last war there was a lot of problems because the American authorities wanted 'separation' between them and the local community but the local communities didn't understand nor adhere to such strictures. Of course there were plenty of moans about 'Yanks' being rich etc but those moans encompassed all Americans, it didn't single out races or colour because the locals saw them as Americans only. 'Americans' were seen as somewhat exotic whatever their colour having been usually only seen on the big screen. If people think black people were a 'novelty' here at time they should remember black people have been in the UK since Roman times c 54 CE.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

To be honest I haven't heard arguments like that, but while we do have our problems we don't have such a wide black/white divide here, we don't call black people who live here Black British people, they are just bog standard Brits like the rest of us LOL. When black solders and airmen arrived here during the last war there was a lot of problems because the American authorities wanted 'separation' between them and the local community but the local communities didn't understand nor adhere to such strictures. Of course there were plenty of moans about 'Yanks' being rich etc but those moans encompassed all Americans, it didn't single out races or colour because the locals saw them as Americans only. 'Americans' were seen as somewhat exotic whatever their colour having been usually only seen on the big screen. If people think black people were a 'novelty' here at time they should remember black people have been in the UK since Roman times c 54 CE.

I remember reading about that (the WWII experiences) in a book - perhaps Citizens of London.

I remember standing in a fast-food restaurant, and a woman was yelling at the cashier (apparently having been told some item wasn't available) and saying something to this effect: "Y'all just won't sell me that because I'm black!" I was more than a little surprised, because other than the cashier in question, I was the only non-black person in the restaurant, so far as I could see. It's unusual, but I've seen similar instances before. Mind you, I live not far from an area of the country where there's a reasonable likelihood the person making such claims has actually been subject to racism. They've just learned to over-generalize it.

 

[Tez3]

Racism in the UK has nearly always been geared towards the Irish ( and vice versa, the hatred between the two has sometimes been overwhelming), the Jews and the Roman Catholics (there's a long history, at least 5 centuries worth there and has quite a bit to do with the Irish as well as 'foreigners'). There has been and still is prejudice towards black and Asian people but it takes a different turn to that in America because Britain was for so long in charge of colonies. Often the way the prejudice takes form is in paternalism, thinking that black people are like children still in need of a ruling figure to 'guide' them. If you read John Buchan's The Thirty Nine Steps rather than watching the films you will see what I mean, the book and it's language is very different from the film and television versions, for good reason. I will add that Americans tend to be treated the same way at times lol, ie 'you'll be fine when you row up', it does tend to be English people that do this to others, the Celtic races ( Irish, Scottish, Manx, Cornish and Welsh) are more open minded towards other races...other than the English ( more centuries old feuds) Being English means carrying a lot of historical baggage. I'm glad my parents were Scottish and Dutch!

 

[Xue Sheng]

Racism in the UK has nearly always been geared towards the Irish ( and vice versa, the hatred between the two has sometimes been overwhelming), the Jews and the Roman Catholics (there's a long history, at least 5 centuries worth there and has quite a bit to do with the Irish as well as 'foreigners'). There has been and still is prejudice towards black and Asian people but it takes a different turn to that in America because Britain was for so long in charge of colonies. Often the way the prejudice takes form is in paternalism, thinking that black people are like children still in need of a ruling figure to 'guide' them. If you read John Buchan's The Thirty Nine Steps rather than watching the films you will see what I mean, the book and it's language is very different from the film and television versions, for good reason. I will add that Americans tend to be treated the same way at times lol, ie 'you'll be fine when you row up', it does tend to be English people that do this to others, the Celtic races ( Irish, Scottish, Manx, Cornish and Welsh) are more open minded towards other races...other than the English ( more centuries old feuds) Being English means carrying a lot of historical baggage. I'm glad my parents were Scottish and Dutch!

It appears the "English" and "Han" people of China, have something in common.

 

[PhotonGuy]

What on earth are you talking about? Belt colours can't be called racist, no sane sensible person would think racism and belts had anything to do with other. Do look up the words 'Race' and 'Racism' then understand that anything and everything cannot be called racist, in fact your remark comes across as coming from someone who hasn't had a racist remark or action aimed at them therefore shows little empathy or understanding what it's like to be the target of such despicable behaviour.

I never said that I would call belt colors racist or that I consider them racist, what Im saying is that there are some people who might consider them racist, as silly as that might be. As you said that not anything and everything can be called racist, my point exactly, but there are some people who do think that anything and everything can be called racist. As I said before how some people consider Chess to be racist. I don't but there is some people that do. I never said I agree with that but there are some people who think that, as silly as it is.

I agree that no sane person would associate racism with belt color but lets face it, not everybody is sane.

 

[PhotonGuy]

I think he's referring to those folks who seem to think everything is a sideways reference to race. Since one of the belts is black and one is white (in some schools, that's all there are), someone could say, "Look! See - a lot of white belts, and just a few blacks. Y'all make people do all this stuff to keep them from being able to wear black like it's a bad thing!"

Thank you. My point exactly. Although I was thinking more along the lines of how black is the highest ranking color and white is the lowest ranking color how some people might say that therefore the martial arts is about black superiority. I wouldn't say that and I don't agree with such lines of thinking but as you said, some people consider everything to be a sideways reference to race.

 

[KenpoMaster805]

well 1st i will tell my sifu if the sifu doesnt do northing ill confront them and tell them that is not right what you are doing you talking about black people aye their humans too ok what would happend if somebody talked about you would you be mad i would say that and stop being racist

 

[Tez3]

Thank you. My point exactly. Although I was thinking more along the lines of how black is the highest ranking color and white is the lowest ranking color how some people might say that therefore the martial arts is about black superiority. I wouldn't say that and I don't agree with such lines of thinking but as you said, some people consider everything to be a sideways reference to race.

If you agree that sane people wouldn't think like that why then do you go on and elaborate something none of us were thinking? You say you wouldn't say that just after saying it roflmao.

 

[drop bear]

I remember reading about that (the WWII experiences) in a book - perhaps Citizens of London.

I remember standing in a fast-food restaurant, and a woman was yelling at the cashier (apparently having been told some item wasn't available) and saying something to this effect: "Y'all just won't sell me that because I'm black!" I was more than a little surprised, because other than the cashier in question, I was the only non-black person in the restaurant, so far as I could see. It's unusual, but I've seen similar instances before. Mind you, I live not far from an area of the country where there's a reasonable likelihood the person making such claims has actually been subject to racism. They've just learned to over-generalize it.

People will try it on if they can. Pubs it happens all the time. . It is because they are black. Or because they are gay or have tatoos.

I just call for a whaaaaaaambulance.