Thoughts on the "what martial art should I take for self-defense" question

[Buka]

Sick gig brah, swimming in that pool would be good martial art training. Also dojo pool parties would be awesome

Yeah, would be kind of fun. I'm trying to picture a bunch of guys in gis playing some nine ball for sawbucks.

 

[drop bear]

Agree. When I may my Olympic run I had a nasty eye from an illegal elbow. At the end of the match it was completely closed. Wit a lot of ice and time I could go again the next day but I sure got a lot of funny looks. Anyone who knows anything about WT sparring knows an elbow is pretty far outside the norm. In my case it was 1/2 a fluke and 1/2 my opponent taking advantage of the fluke to take a cheap shot. Taking cheap shots up to the level of getting point deductions were common practice back then.

One thing that has to be considered is the fact that everything in the confines of legal technique within TKD sparring or Any other TMA sparring in tournament competition that I have ever seen (which includes JMA, CMA, KMA) is legal in MMA. Possibly more as I do not fully know the contact rules of MMA.

Otherwise a lot of the concepts are similar. So I can't take a good clinch and jam my finger in a eye or head butt.

Which I can't really do as well from a bad clinch.

When you clinch and strike for example it is the ability to gain the inside line that creates a good strike not being able to have some clever ninja fist or something.

 

[skribs]

Inoki did it once is not the same as easy to apply.

You don't have to give someone a chance to tap in mma. It is just generally arms don't break that quickly or easily.

Edit. Aoki. Sorry.

Anyone who doesn't want to see a dude messed up shouldn't watch this.

I've had my elbow nearly broken several times by someone who lost his balance taking me down with an arm bar. These techniques can cause a lot of damage with relative ease if not done properly.

 

[dvcochran]

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Yeah, would be kind of fun. I'm trying to picture a bunch of guys in gis playing some nine ball for sawbucks.

Just hitting the que ball could be a challenge.

 

[Tez3]

Good point here, if somone for example cant slaughter a animal without bawling their eyes out or being emotionally crippled for a year, then what hope do they have to bash somones skull in with a rock, drive a knife into them until they stop working etc.

Two very different things. A great many people can't slaughter an animal which is neither sick nor attacking them however a slim, light mother whose children are in danger will turn into a raging ninja hell bent on destroying that danger, stick a knife in them, she'd rip someone to pieces. A father defending his family, a spouse defending their other half will not only bash someone's skull in with a rock they will smash it wide open and spread the brains over the street. Many people are timid until it's time not to be.

Back in the early 90's I participated in unliscensed fighting, if you like you can call it mma without the ring or a referee, the ring was composed of straw bails, the fight ended when your opponent could not move or continue, there was a ref, but he was there to stop clinching, and holding, because the betting guests wanted to be entertained, and had money on you

With the Butlins by any chance?

 

[dvcochran]

Two very different things. A great many people can't slaughter an animal which is neither sick nor attacking them however a slim, light mother whose children are in danger will turn into a raging ninja hell bent on destroying that danger, stick a knife in them, she'd rip someone to pieces. A father defending his family, a spouse defending their other half will not only bash someone's skull in with a rock they will smash it wide open and spread the brains over the street. Many people are timid until it's time not to be.

Damn, that is strong. I feel largely true, but strong.

 

[drop bear]

I've had my elbow nearly broken several times by someone who lost his balance taking me down with an arm bar. These techniques can cause a lot of damage with relative ease if not done properly.

Yeah. If you have locked your arm out at let them.

The issue with MMA is that they tend to keep their elbows in which stuffs most arm bar attempts.

 

[skribs]

Yeah. If you have locked your arm out at let them.

The issue with MMA is that they tend to keep their elbows in which stuffs most arm bar attempts.

If someone keeps their elbows tucked, I'll change my anchor point and target a different joint, or target the side of the elbow instead of the back of it.

I would normally use this technique immediately after a throw, when the person is more focused on how to land without smashing their face or their head into the ground. Or done after a throw that results in the arm being mostly extended already.

 

[drop bear]

If someone keeps their elbows tucked, I'll change my anchor point and target a different joint, or target the side of the elbow instead of the back of it.

I would normally use this technique immediately after a throw, when the person is more focused on how to land without smashing their face or their head into the ground. Or done after a throw that results in the arm being mostly extended already.

In that gigantic pause between being thrown and starting to defend?

At the end of the day. I can see MMA working. Jump on you tube and for example watch people hit berimbolos successfully.

And on the other side we have these for example standing arm bar guys that we can't see work. And honestly don't really follow the dynamics of how a fight works.

And it is precisely the sort of thing that the comment. "It doesn't work in MMA" was designed to challenge.

And so I can jump on YouTube and show how a takedown and scramble to the feet basically looks.

Rather than say the romantic notion. Which is how you are describing the scenario.

 

[Tez3]

Damn, that is strong. I feel largely true, but strong.

Too many dismiss people as being 'weak' or unable to defend themselves but everyone has that point which when crossed they will explode, not always in a good way but they will turn even if they themselves don't think it could happen. It's not just a 'personality' thing but adrenaline comes into play as well as the natural feelings of wanting to protect your nearest and dearest.
Much is made about courage but the bravest people are those who do a thing when they are afraid, I do hate this martial arts bravado stuff about whether you can kill an animal etc. During the last world war many people who would never kill an animal killed fellow human beings because there was no choice and they were defending their country. In the First World War how many of those in the trenches would never have killed an animal before 1914?

All this macho talk is just about talking yourself up, making it seem that martial artists are above the 'normal' person. It's simply not true.

 

[Gweilo]

Rather than say the romantic notion. Which is how you are describing the scenario.

A lot of people watch a Hapkido training video, and misunderstand, they think its pretty, not workable in other situations, thats not being romantic, romantic is a video of someone kicking a bag in their yard with sloppy and so telegraphed technique, others have seen faster drying paint, now thats romantic.

 

[skribs]

In that gigantic pause between being thrown and starting to defend?

What pause? I have the technique lined up as soon as they hit the ground.

At the end of the day. I can see MMA working.

I've never said it doesn't. Just that it's not infallible as a proxy for a real fight.

 

[drop bear]

What pause? I have the technique lined up as soon as they hit the ground.



I've never said it doesn't. Just that it's not infallible as a proxy for a real fight.

As soon as they hit the ground is actually too late. Unless you are doing some very specific things which you haven't really touched on. Fighting is a bit different to what you are describing. This idea that he falls to the ground sticking his arm out for you is pretty rare. Especially in a sports fighting context because they tend to know what they are doing.

Drills work like you describe. Fighting really doesn't.

Anyway. Show me your technique working or someone making it work or something. Someone who can consistently get these arm bars.

 

[skribs]

As soon as they hit the ground is actually too late. Unless you are doing some very specific things which you haven't really touched on.

That might be what's going on. I don't think I can really explain it any better than I have, so I'm just going to stop this particular part of the thread.

 

[drop bear]

Judo is a good example because they do both. So drills kind of look like this.

But live tends to look like this.

 

[drop bear]

That might be what's going on. I don't think I can really explain it any better than I have, so I'm just going to stop this particular part of the thread.

Just show a video of your concept.

 

[Gweilo]

Just show a video of your concept.

If he does you still are not going to agree, but I will point out, if you throw and hold the arm, wrist etc, as long as you have contact, the next techniques should be seamless.

 

[skribs]

If he does you still are not going to agree, but I will point out, if you throw and hold the arm, wrist etc, as long as you have contact, the next techniques should be seamless.

Yeah, I was thinking that. In order for me to demonstrate my partner would need to be compliant (otherwise I'd most likely end up transitioning into another move) and I'd get the "see it only works because your partner is compliant" spiel.

 

[Gweilo]

A technique mentioned by DB earlier, the Berimbolo, is a good example, by remaining in contact, you can negate your intitial move, and counter this move, by staying in contact, I found a Bjj vid to show my point.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

making it seem that martial artists are above the 'normal' person. It's simply not true.

What can make you to think this way?

Do you agree that,

no training < 1 year training < 5 years training < 10 years training?