Thoughts on the "what martial art should I take for self-defense" question

[Kung Fu Wang]

You may of asked, but how many accepted,

It was almost 100%. excepted one day 3 of us went to invited a YMCA Karate instructor to joint in our fighting club. But he turned down our invitation. I believe because I beat up one of his young brother (from Dallas) in a challenge fight before.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

your abc methodology ...

You call it abc methodology. I call it plan. You try to bring your opponent to fight the way that you want to fight and not the way he wants to fight.

 

[CB Jones]

I was thinking more like ...

- I serve you a pot of tea. I then throw hot tea on your face and beat you up.
- I open the car door for you. You step on the car. I smash the car door and jam your leg. I then beat you up.
- ...

Not sure how you claim that as self defense....but I like how you are thinking.

 

[Flying Crane]

Good point here, if somone for example cant slaughter a animal without bawling their eyes out or being emotionally crippled for a year, then what hope do they have to bash somones skull in with a rock, drive a knife into them until they stop working etc. So if you go to a TMA school that has many things that work, you can get disconnected with what they will do to people as you dont see it done often and dont go through conditoning to death

My cats are much better humans than most people.

Just sayin’.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Not sure how you claim that as self defense....but I like how you are thinking.

We need to know how a bad guy may think. We don't need to know how a good guy may think.

 

[Deleted member 39746]

So if someone in your opinion cannot slaughter a defensless animal, then their ma is bogus, what a load of bollocks, I would do my absolute best to evade control or destroy anyone who wishes to fight or attack me, but I could not destroy a defensless animal or human

If you cant slaughter a animal without serious mental repercussions you should rethink plunging a knife into somone as a self defence option etc etc. Its a sound point though. Some people just cannot kill or go to the same brutality others can and with that as effectively as others can. If you havent seen the effects of breaking bones in people, shattering jaws etc it could be a shock after the effect.

Basically the more varibles you elimate the less chance anything will go wrong, if you can slaughter a animal fine, then chances being you wont exactly freeze stabbing somone. Likewise with other stress innoculation.


You cannot say for certain what you will do in a stressful situation until you have gone through it. this issue plauges this area, like i stated militaries have this issue, you dont know if you are going to freeze up getting shot at, do soemthing stupid etc. Its why the training (should) test you under extreme stress to see if you can actually handle it and they do the best at emulating the real things stresses as they can in training.

And i will repeat the above: You cannot say for certain what you will do. Thats just the reality of it. Better to find out before said situation what your limits are and if you will freeze up etc.


Addendum: For clarification, the martial art isnt ******** content wise if it doesnt add it in, but if you want something for actually fighting you should condition yourself to it. eg if a knife is your main weapon for self defence, then getting used to blood and killing things fairly brutally will help.

 

[Deleted member 39746]

My cats are much better humans than most people.

Just sayin’.

Wait until you are starving, we shall see how quickly the bond fades.

(people have eaten sledding dogs and other pets and even taboos of food when they are starving, you either do it or die)



Now, that was quite grim. But hey ho, thats the subject matter.

 

[Gweilo]

If you cant slaughter a animal without serious mental repercussions you should rethink plunging a knife into somone as a self defence option etc etc. Its a sound point though. Some people just cannot kill or go to the same brutality others can and with that as effectively as others can. If you havent seen the effects of breaking bones in people, shattering jaws etc it could be a shock after the effect.


Basically the more varibles you elimate the less chance anything will go wrong, if you can slaughter a animal fine, then chances being you wont exactly freeze stabbing somone. Likewise with other stress innoculation.


You cannot say for certain what you will do in a stressful situation until you have gone through it. this issue plauges this area, like i stated militaries have this issue, you dont know if you are going to freeze up getting shot at, do soemthing stupid etc. Its why the training (should) test you under extreme stress to see if you can actually handle it and they do the best at emulating the real things stresses as they can in training.

And i will repeat the above: You cannot say for certain what you will do. Thats just the reality of it. Better to find out before said situation what your limits are and if you will freeze up etc.


Addendum: For clarification, the martial art isnt ******** content wise if it doesnt add it in, but if you want something for actually fighting you should condition yourself to it. eg if a knife is your main weapon for self defence, then getting used to blood and killing things fairly brutally will help.

I couldnt plunge a knife into an animal, and in self defense, I would try to avoid stabbing my opponent with their own knife, as its against the law to carry a knife in the uk on the street, but the chances are I would get a custodial sentance for manslaughter, if they where to die. I would have no problem breaking their arm or leg, or stamping on their chest.

(people have eaten sledding dogs and other pets and even taboos of food when they are starving, you either do it or die)

I am a meat eater, and killing an animal for food in a life or death situation is quite normal, but to suggest, if your not capable of barbaric things, you wont be any good in a life or death self defense senario is silly imo, however I do agree, some people lose a fight when they crumble because of a hard strike they are not use to taking, or see their own blood, or are meet with aggression or voilence.

 

[Flying Crane]

Wait until you are starving, we shall see how quickly the bond fades.

(people have eaten sledding dogs and other pets and even taboos of food when they are starving, you either do it or die)



Now, that was quite grim. But hey ho, thats the subject matter.

Oh, I was just considering who I would be more willing to kill.

 

[dvcochran]

So if someone in your opinion cannot slaughter a defensless animal, then their ma is bogus, what a load of bollocks, I would do my absolute best to evade control or destroy anyone who wishes to fight or attack me, but I could not destroy a defensless animal or human

I agree @Rat may have taken it a little too far but I get what he is saying. Conditioning for, whatever, will create an environment that is easier to handle. I do have a hard time translating killing an animal into easier self defense mentality however. Emotional factors like fear and the effects of adrenaline are powerful and have to be considered.

If someone is killing an animal out of pure meanness that is simply evil. If you are killing/slaughtering an animal for purpose I have no problems and have been around it my whole life. The only time I have a problem with it in the sport sense is when people leave the game laying where it was shot. Not much sport in that.
There is not too many things more satisfying to me than raising livestock and crops for consumption. Something we learned at a very young age was to give thanks to the animal right after taking it's life.

 

[Gweilo]

I agree @Rat may have taken it a little too far but I get what he is saying. Conditioning for, whatever, will create an environment that is easier to handle. I do have a hard time translating killing an animal into easier self defense mentality however. Emotional factors like fear and the effects of adrenaline are powerful and have to be considered.

If someone is killing an animal out of pure meanness that is simply evil. If you are killing/slaughtering an animal for purpose I have no problems and have been around it my whole life. The only time I have a problem with it in the sport sense is when people leave the game laying where it was shot. Not much sport in that.
There is not too many things more satisfying to me than raising livestock and crops for consumption. Something we learned at a very young age was to give thanks to the animal right after taking it's life.

I agree entirley, good animal husbandry is paramount for a good quality meat products, I am also in favour of using as much as possible of a slaughtered animal. The phyche element of ma, is something we train in constantly, in my current art, we do strike each other in a controlled manner during class, this gives the striker the feedback on striking correctly, and dealing with the impact of a strike, physically, and mentally, we constantly remain relaxed in our body, removing tension, and using that tension in the striking limb, i.e heavy fist, foot knee elbow etc, we also use our breathe to calm, restore, and add stress to our bodies during excercise. I did react to the stabbing an animal, as I thought it was a silly analogy, and some of the idiots around nowdays may have read it as literal, but I do agree with the overall points he was making.

 

[drop bear]

So we are basically discussing developing mental toughness.

And still trying to worm our way against the importance of competition to do that?

 

[Deleted member 39746]

I agree @Rat may have taken it a little too far but I get what he is saying. Conditioning for, whatever, will create an environment that is easier to handle. I do have a hard time translating killing an animal into easier self defense mentality however. Emotional factors like fear and the effects of adrenaline are powerful and have to be considered.

If someone is killing an animal out of pure meanness that is simply evil. If you are killing/slaughtering an animal for purpose I have no problems and have been around it my whole life. The only time I have a problem with it in the sport sense is when people leave the game laying where it was shot. Not much sport in that.
There is not too many things more satisfying to me than raising livestock and crops for consumption. Something we learned at a very young age was to give thanks to the animal right after taking it's life.

Worth noting i wasnt detailing extremists in that. eg if you have a relgious beleif not to kill things, you probbly wont. Just the average sort of person.

But we can have that argument and about pacifism and how it can lead to victimisation all day and such things like it.

Also, i am renown for my hyperbole.

 

[Gweilo]

So we are basically discussing developing mental toughness.

And still trying to worm our way against the importance of competition to do that?

Not at all, competition is important for mental toughness, as is sparring, but they are not the only methods, my only quarm with competition is when its under very very strict rules, and someone scores a point for tapping the ear, or striking to the head is not allowed rule, and someone only participate in play sparring and vever pressure test themselves. Is this a continuance of a conversation we had a little while back?

 

[jobo]

So we are basically discussing developing mental toughness.

And still trying to worm our way against the importance of competition to do that?

yes competition is good for '' mental toughness'' but it doesnt have to be fighting competition any competition works , even completely against your own previous best

once youve developed a competition mentality you can apply that to anything

 

[Deleted member 39746]

once youve developed a competition mentality you can apply that to anything

Train how you fight. Something as close as you are preparing for will help more and then the habits built wont nessisarily be detrimental. eg Track competions for self defence vs doing boxing or comabt sports. Obviously boxing would work better. (unless your the running type)

Hunting for example is a pretty good method for learning practical shooting skills and decisveness via to shoot or not to shoot and to seize oppertunities etc.

 

[Martial D]

Reddit seems to focus heavily on combat sports that make it into MMA, with a lot of bashing of TMAs and RBSDs in the process.


I'm not going to be bowing before the golden calf of the UFC,

I find it weird how people fixate on the term MMA,as if it were a style into itself that could be better or worse than other styles. I used to see MMA as a 'style' but now that I've been training at an MMA club for a few years now I've come to realize it's not.

It's a methodology...like science.

Once you are testing your skills live in an environment where you can use all of your weapons(with various exceptions depending on laws and regulations that vary from place to place and promotion to promotion) you are doing 'mixed martial arts'.

It doesn't matter where your skills come from as long as you can make it work against someone fighting back.


So yes, when a style 'doesnt work in MMA' that means it has been tested and failed. That doesn't always mean the technique contained isn't potentially effective(although it sometimes does), it sometimes means nobody has put it to the fire long enough to really learn how to use it.

When people erect this wall between MMA and TMA, it really helps nobody. TMA has the syllabus, and MMA is testing and personalizing this to each martial artist.

This should be a synchronicity rather than a standoff.



As far as the sd part of your post...not even going to touch that

 

[jobo]

Train how you fight. Something as close as you are preparing for will help more and then the habits built wont nessisarily be detrimental. eg Track competions for self defence vs doing boxing or comabt sports. Obviously boxing would work better. (unless your the running type)

Hunting for example is a pretty good method for learning practical shooting skills and decisveness via to shoot or not to shoot and to seize oppertunities etc.

we are discussing mental toughness, the quality of refusing to be beaten until you have expounded every last bit of effort your body will allow, you get that from running as much as you do from boxing, though its better if threes a pain barrier to go through, as there is with some types of running

the absolute toughest people ive ever met are rugby players, they would take most people on here out with out breaking sweat , but then fell runners are pretty dam tough as well, but you can see the quality with some thing as unathletic as snooker, you just know they wont go down with out a fight, coz thats there personality type, whether they can muster much of a fight is another matter

 

[Bill Mattocks]

This question has been around forever and it will probably be around forever. The correct answer is always "it depends," followed by an interrogatory that seldom varies. Different people will find different answers based on traversing that decision tree.

Unfortunately, newcomers tend not to do two things.

First, they fail to look to see if the question has been asked/answered before.

Second, assuming they do find such threads, they seem not to believe them and feel the need to ask anew.

The question itself is so generic as to demand followup questions, as have been mentioned in this thread and by the OP.

1) What do you mean by 'self-defense'?
2) What is available in your area?
3) Are you willing to train?

As simple as these questions sound, answers still tend to vary.

I ask the first question because people live in different areas of the world, and face different kinds of threats. If one lives in a war-torn area with bombs going off and roaming armed bands of warlords, I suspect that 'self-defense' means something different than it means to a person living in a suburban zone of a modern first-world city that has a fairly low crime rate and 'self-defense' is more often going to involve random drunken barroom fisticuffs of the voluntary sort.

I ask the second question because there's no point in setting one's hopes on a style or type of training that simply isn't available where one lives. I am setting aside distance learning via book and video because that's garbage and doesn't work for initial training (sorry, facts hurt).

I ask the third question because it seems many fantasize about magic arts that give results without serious and continuing effort. The best way to learn to take a punch is...to get punched. A lot. The best way to learn to deliver a punch is to punch. A lot.

As to the art - meh. Horses for courses. I like mine, you like yours, and we can go around and around about that - there is no way to resolve that question to everyone's satisfaction.

But to cut to the chase; Isshinryu is best. You're welcome.

 

[skribs]

I find it weird how people fixate on the term MMA,as if it were a style into itself that could be better or worse than other styles. I used to see MMA as a 'style' but now that I've been training at an MMA club for a few years now I've come to realize it's not.

It's a methodology...like science.

Once you are testing your skills live in an environment where you can use all of your weapons(with various exceptions depending on laws and regulations that vary from place to place and promotion to promotion) you are doing 'mixed martial arts'.

It doesn't matter where your skills come from as long as you can make it work against someone fighting back.


So yes, when a style 'doesnt work in MMA' that means it has been tested and failed. That doesn't always mean the technique contained isn't potentially effective(although it sometimes does), it sometimes means nobody has put it to the fire long enough to really learn how to use it.

When people erect this wall between MMA and TMA, it really helps nobody. TMA has the syllabus, and MMA is testing and personalizing this to each martial artist.

This should be a synchronicity rather than a standoff.



As far as the sd part of your post...not even going to touch that

It has been tested and failed, but with a few caveats:

• It has been tested and failed in the specific rules of MMA
• It has been tested and failed against someone who has a pretty good idea of what you're going to do
• It has not been proven the technique is bad, only that the person trying it failed to execute