Sport And TMA....Again

[RTKDCMB]

If that was simple knife defence, I wouldn't want to try the more complex one.

(I think you've double posted the video)

This was the one I meant to post.

BJJ against multiple attackers;

 

[RTKDCMB]

http://www.bjjee.com/bjj-news/femal...rapist-to-sleep-with-triangle-choke-in-dubai/

Good on her and serves him right, but notice that she removed the threat of the knife before she wrestled him to the ground.

 

[RTKDCMB]

Oh my....:eye-popping: See, this proves the point (no pun intended ) that I was making earlier. Why the hell would you intentionally go to the ground in this situation?

His first mistake was before he went to the ground by sticking his head and neck out closer to the knife. Also why would you let go of the knife holding hand once you managed to grab it to hold it off with your foot?

 

[Spinedoc]

This was the one I meant to post.

BJJ against multiple attackers;

Well, yep, that's sorta what I imagined would happen. LOL.

 

[Spinedoc]

His first mistake was before he went to the ground by sticking his head and neck out closer to the knife. Also why would you let go of the knife holding hand once you managed to grab it to hold it off with your foot?

Agreed, he would have been stabbed about 5 times trying to do that maneuver.

Mike

 

[RTKDCMB]

Agreed, he would have been stabbed about 5 times trying to do that maneuver.

Mike

At least.

 

[TFP]

This was the one I meant to post.

BJJ against multiple attackers;

Thats awesome. "Stop, stop!"

 

[TFP]

Good on her and serves him right, but notice that she removed the threat of the knife before she wrestled him to the ground.

Is anyone trying to say you should grapple a guy with a knife?

 

[RTKDCMB]

Is anyone trying to say you should grapple a guy with a knife?

Watch the other video.

 

[TFP]

Watch the other video.

yeah I saw that, comical at best. I meant anyone in this thread suggesting it.

 

[TFP]

Also, has anyone in this thread actually been in a knife fight or knife attack? Have you seen a knife fight or knife attack?

outside of work of course.:wink2:

 

[lklawson]

I spend half my class in judo fighting gravity. Staying on my feet. So do high school wrestlers and football players to a lesser degree. So don't act like a BJJ guy can just take anyone and everyone down at will. That's just not the case and you better prepare for the guy that you cant take down

Yea, verily.

Getting up quickly would mean you already went down. Again someplace you don't ever want to go down no matter how fast you can get up.

Horsefeathers. Most places people "fight" are relatively free of broken glass, HIV needles, and lava, and there are plenty of reasons one might deliberately choose to go to newaza. One reason might be that you're better at newaza. Another is that you're getting your butt kicked standing.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[lklawson]

Isn.t that the way it goes in MMA and BJJ .

Clinches seem to happen with fair regularity when one fighter is losing the standup fight badly.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[lklawson]

Of course they have and at the same time no they haven't. If you put all your eggs in the take him down and sub. Him and you cant get him down. Well your screwed you better have a plan for dealing with someone that's standing up.

Bullet . Bullet. depends im going to run if i can. . Im going inside then bullet . My hallway? Bullet. . I dont go to school. . How do you gobtobthe ground in a car? So I'm going to punch lots . With my kids your getting gun faced.

Bullet bullet bullet bullet??? Damn. You'd better be damn sure that you can convince the DA and potential jury that some guy wrestling with you on the ground represented Deadly Force to you and an immediate, inescapable threat. And this is coming from a huge 2A supporter and NRA Certified RSO.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[Steve]

An example of both ground defence being a joke and being too gi-dependent.

Whoa. Hold on. There is a difference between saying that intentionally fighting on the ground is a bad idea in self defence, and saying that it is a joke. I start to take things personally when you call my style a joke.

BJJ against multiple attackers

Does anyone dispute that ANY STYLE against multiple attackers is going to have trouble? I get that one doesn't want to be on the ground against multiple attackers. Agreed. But, I'd argue that your style (any style) against multiple attackers is going to have trouble. The amount of trouble depends largely on context: your experience/skill, their experience/skill, their intent (do they want to mug you or kill you?), and the environment.

For a bunch of guys complaining that the thread has drifted to become focused on BJJ, you guys seem to be going out of your way to focus on BJJ. How it became BJJ vs Judo, I don't know. But, the fact is, both are "sports" and both are "traditional martial arts." In my opinion, this should more properly be a conversation about the pros/cons of styles like BJJ, Judo, Sambo, Kyokushin Karate and TKD as opposed to styles with zero sport elements, such as Taijutsu, jujutsu, Goju Ryu or any number of styles.

Hell, let's talk pros and cons of san shou vs wing chun.

 

[lklawson]

God please don't do this! Ha, as a guy with a Catch Wrestling background this is a pet pieve, lol! CACC guys were beating up GJJ's great uncles (Judo) well before GJJ was even a thought. Nit to mention GJJ's grandpa used to train and fight CATCH.

And CaCC guys were getting beaten up by Judo guys too. CaCC guys considered Judo/Jui-Jitsu as just another style of wrestling and, if early 19th C. CaCC legends and writers are to be believed, one that was OK and worth adding to the standard set of CaCC "tricks."

Martin "Farmer" Burns repeatedly describes Juido/Jui-Jitsu as merely "tricky Japanese wrestling" and George "The Russian Lion" Hackenschmidt specifically recommends in his book on CaCC that wrestlers learn a bit of Jui-Jitsu.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[RTKDCMB]

It's also better to work with natural forces than against them.

When striking you use natural forces all the time - its called physics.

 

[Steve]

And CaCC guys were getting beaten up by Judo guys too. CaCC guys considered Judo/Jui-Jitsu as just another style of wrestling and, if early 19th C. CaCC legends and writers are to be believed, one that was OK and worth adding to the standard set of CaCC "tricks."

Martin "Farmer" Burns repeatedly describes Juido/Jui-Jitsu as merely "tricky Japanese wrestling" and George "The Russian Lion" Hackenschmidt specifically recommends in his book on CaCC that wrestlers learn a bit of Jui-Jitsu.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

Catch wrestling is just grumpy no-gi BJJ.

 

[RTKDCMB]

Is anyone trying to say you should grapple a guy with a knife?

Not specifically but our good friend Hanzou seems to be of the opinion that it is always best to go to the ground. Others have said that it is not the preferable option and there are many situations where it is a very bad idea and this was one of them.

 

[MJS]

Whoa. Hold on. There is a difference between saying that intentionally fighting on the ground is a bad idea in self defence, and saying that it is a joke. I start to take things personally when you call my style a joke.

Personally, I don't think BJJ is a joke. I have said that intentionally going down may be a bad idea in certain situations.

Does anyone dispute that ANY STYLE against multiple attackers is going to have trouble? I get that one doesn't want to be on the ground against multiple attackers. Agreed. But, I'd argue that your style (any style) against multiple attackers is going to have trouble. The amount of trouble depends largely on context: your experience/skill, their experience/skill, their intent (do they want to mug you or kill you?), and the environment.

IMHO, multi man attacks are a PITA, regardless of the art one trains. I've seen some good multi man stuff and some that was less desirable..lol. I also feel that it's something that needs to be drilled, with specific things, worked on.

For a bunch of guys complaining that the thread has drifted to become focused on BJJ, you guys seem to be going out of your way to focus on BJJ. How it became BJJ vs Judo, I don't know. But, the fact is, both are "sports" and both are "traditional martial arts." In my opinion, this should more properly be a conversation about the pros/cons of styles like BJJ, Judo, Sambo, Kyokushin Karate and TKD as opposed to styles with zero sport elements, such as Taijutsu, jujutsu, Goju Ryu or any number of styles.

Hell, let's talk pros and cons of san shou vs wing chun.

I was one that was complaining about the drift. Sure, some drift will happen, and that's fine. I felt that I was pretty specific in what I was looking to talk about, however, unfortunately, the thread turned into a repeat of the "Is BJJ good for SD?" thread.

Oh well.....nobody can say the debate here hasn't been interesting.