Questions regarding MA-80

[bart]

...Actually there is a pretty decent gap between the WMAA curriculum (from what I have seen of it) and MA-80. The first thing I can bring up is the different sections of WMAA curriculum such as the "Kali" section and so forth...

First of all I am not offering this as criticism. Tempers tend to flare in discussions of this matter, but truly my interest is purely academic and not meant to spark a debate about the term "kali" and its validity as a general term. That argument has been done in and outside of this forum ad nauseum. I am not a proponent of the term "kali" but neither am I a detractor. I am simply curious as to why "kali" would be used within the curriculum of modern arnis at all.

I looked at the website (www.wmarnis.com) and it appears that the "kali" sections refer to matters involving the manipulation of the stick. Is that the differentiation? Internally to WMAA instruction, are the students led to believe that "kali" refers to stick manipulation specifically? Is the WMAA the only group to use "kali" in such a manner in their curriculum? Was "kali" a term commonly used by Remy Presas to refer to "stickwork"?

 

[James Miller]

I am simply curious as to why "kali" would be used within the curriculum of modern arnis at all.

Datu Hartman uses generics uses the following as generic terms to classify material:

Mano – Mano: Punching, Kick, Trapping, etc.
Dumog: Locking, Throwing, etc
Anyos: Forms
Kali – Escrima*: Weapon Training

*In the 3.0 version of the curriculum it has been updated to the above.

When Datu teaches he makes a point of telling people that these are only generic terms being used in the Modern Arnis system.

 

[Dan Anderson]

1. Is the WMAA the only group to use "kali" in such a manner in their curriculum? 2. Was "kali" a term commonly used by Remy Presas to refer to "stickwork"?

Hi Bart,
1. Yes.
2. No.

Mano – Mano: Punching, Kick, Trapping, etc.
Dumog: Locking, Throwing, etc
Anyos: Forms
Kali – Escrima*: Weapon Training

Prof. Presas did use the term anyo for the forms and once in a while the term dumog. The distinct classification of the technical groupings is Tim's. This is how he specifies. No good, no bad - just how he does it. RP didn't it do that much.

Great minds think alike, I always say!

As long as our socks don't stink alike! :rofl:

Yours,
Dan Anderson

 

[arnisador]

Yes, he uses them very generically and always makes that clear. He doesn't mean kali as a specific system but rather as what people usually think of when they hear the word used in this context: FMA weapons usage. The Dumog is the Professor's SCJJ-influenced material, given a Filipino label. In fact, he and I spoke with Rick Manglinong about the terms dumog and buno, and their proper usage, this past weekend.

I'm not sure I've ever heard Remy Presas use the term Kali, to be honest...but then, his first book was on escrima and that became arnis, so I'm also not convinced he was too hung up on any of this language.

 

[Cruentus]

Great minds think alike, I always say!

eh...screw you guys.... :rofl: :rofl:

 

[Black Grass]

...
I'm not sure I've ever heard Remy Presas use the term Kali, to be honest...

I remember him using the term 'kali' once. he said that the word is/comes from an ilongo term for threshing rice to remove the husks.

Vince

 

[Dan Anderson]

Hi All,

I saw this after, what, two years or more? Boy, have things changed since then! Not only has this forum cooled down by quite a bit but MA-80 as well. Tiime for an update description. First a little history.

Two years ago I was in the UK and from viewing the "library tapes" of seminars I was doing then, I saw I was moving differently. The next year (why the UK is a catalyst for me is a wonder in itself) I found that I was "no longer doing Remy's art." I was now doing "Dan's art." This is a natural progression for anyone who is training in any martial art; the root is one thing and what it developes into is something else. I can say that even though the root of MA-80 is definitely Remy Presas Modern Arnis, much, much more of the technical and viewpoint changes are definitely "Dan-isms." The ratio is much more of a 65/45% Remy/Dan these days. When I really got I was doing more of "Dan's art" was when I realized that I would debate anyone including my late teacher as to why I would teach something in a certain way or how I would execute, etc.

Instead of making any kind of a broadcast regarding my epiphany, I got in touch with two of my "older brothers" in Modern Arnis, Roland Dantes and Rene Tongson. I remember the brouhaha that erupted the last time I mentioned MA-80 and especially the accusation that I was being disrespectful to the memory of Remy Presas. I went over the above with them and not only got rave support from the both of them but recognition from International Modern Arnis Federation Philippines of MA-80 being a legitimate branch of Modern Arnis as well. http://danandersonkarate.com/promotion.html

During the trip to the Philippines and the 1st Remy Presas Memorial Training Camp I had the honor to be a founding member of the Worldwide Family Of Modern Arnis (name was changed this last summer from Brotherhood). Most recently I received recognition from the Philippine Classical Arnis Council as Founder of MA-80.

One of the more fascinating things is that in the last several years since the several years, all of us who have been propagating Modern Arnis, no matter the organizational or affiliation ties, we have been continuing the art and it is as strong now as it ever has been.

Anyway, an update for you all regarding a long dead thread. MA-80 is it's own art, recognized in the Philippines. All for now.

Yours,
Dan Anderson

 

[arnisador]

I'm glad to hear you're keeping things going. I think we all are moving in our own directions now to a greater or lesser extent.

The ratio is much more of a 65/45% Remy/Dan these days.

Now that's really giving 110%!!!

 

[Dan Anderson]

I'm glad to hear you're keeping things going. I think we all are moving in our own directions now to a greater or lesser extent. Now that's really giving 110%!!!

The truth is now known! Tim Hartman is dyslexic and I don't do math well!!! :highfive:

Yes, we are all following the core principles we each got from Prof. Presas.
Add our respective personality differences and the art continues in different flavors.

Yours,
Dan Anderson

 

[Mark Lynn]

Dan

Did you ever get my email with my mailing address?

Mark

 

[Dan Anderson]

Been majorly busy - please resend. Your DVD is made and waiting for me to get off my behind and send it.

dan

 

[donald]

Barry-
You wrote this:
I think the real problem is that many of us got to know Remy personally so we have a personal attachment to his legacy. In Parkers Kenpo there are many different organizations all teaching the same system. Each organization has their own twist on the same program, yet they all give credit to the founder Ed Parker Sr. by calling either Parker’s Kenpo or American Kenpo Karate. They do not name it PK-85 or AKK-Y2K. I think some people may perceive Anderson’s actions as disrespectful.

Mr.Miller,

I have never been a FMA practioner, and only comment here because of your statement above. Also I am a nobody in the kenpo world, just an enthusiast who has been around for awhile.
Just a point of clarification regarding your statement concerning EPAK. Although most who practice any EPAK variation give credit where credit is due. Even in so doing some have formed their own systems (ala MA-80) and while still giving Mr.Parker Sr. his props they have given their twist a new moniker, ie:Kenpo 2000, AKKI, Speakman's 5.0, etc., etc.. I think that if you add enough of your own spin to what you have learned from someone. You should probably come up with a new "name", ie:Mr.Parker Sr., Mr.Remy Sr., Mr.Peter Urban, Mr.Jeff Speakman. Because technically you are not teaching their "system" anymore, but a true variation of same. It sounds to me like Mr.Anderson is doing the honorable thing. Instead of staying in an arena, where the potential lies to argue about whose Presas Modern Arnis is purer, best whatever as well as containing the potential for confusion within the "ranks" of RMA. He stepped out into his own arena, and thereby gave it his "personal" stamp while continuing to give props where props are due. As long as he is'nt making false claims why not salute the man, and get on with it? Let me conclude this stating that I mean no disrespect to anyone involved in this. I just wanted to add my 2 cents regarding EPAK, and this situation in general from the outside looking in.
Salute,
1stJohn1:9

 

[donald]

In looking over the post I just realized that my over all comments should have been directed to "Barry". My apologies to Mr.Miller if I have offended in any way.

Salute,
1stJohn1:9

 

[hapkenkido]

SM Anderson,
I can't wait to meet and train with you at the Atlanta camp in june. Bob Quinn has told me alot about you and i have been looking at your site. I was wondering if you will be bringing any hard copys of your books or dvds to sell at the camp.
Chip Pike

 

[Dan Anderson]

Hi Chip,

Hi. We're going to have a good time at Bobby's camp. I'm really looking forward to it. I'll bring mostly DVDs. Maybe some books but since they are heavier I try not to overload my luggage with them. If you have a specific request I can bring some sepcifically for you.

Yours,
Dan Anderson

 

[bobquinn]

OKAY, Truth be said about SM Anderson on the not wanting to have his luggae to heavy is I have to carry his dang luggae and also the more room he has the cool stuff he can bring home to his love,

Bob Q

 

[Dan Anderson]

Hmmmm, Bob carrying my luggage for me sheds a different light on the subject. All sorts of possibilities.

DA

 

[hapkenkido]

SM Anderson,
Thank you for the offer to bring the books I am interrested in. MODERN ARNIS: The Art Within Your Art - The Book Of Basics or TRANKADA: The Ties That Bind. I hope it is not to much trouble.
Chip Pike

 

[arnisador]

Definitely, get Mr. Anderson's books!

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Definitely, get Mr. Anderson's books!

Yes they are the best Modern Arnis books out there. You will have a good time training with Dan and I look forward to having him up here to Michigan again!