Questions regarding MA-80

[DoxN4cer]

Amusing parody of Celebrity Death Match. But seriously, if Arnis isn't your gig, then why get involved in the dicussion at all?

You may be right in terms of the rules. The rules seem to be flexible every now and then. I might be "riding the line" as it were.

I'm with you though. Let Dan do is thing.

r/

Tim

 

[Tgace]

To say that this **** is peculiar to Arnis is more than a little disingenuous too. I see this same type of stuff going on in many of the forums around here. The only difference possibly being a possible lack of other significant content in the Arnis forums....

 

[Bester]

Why get involved? Good question.
Because I care about the arts, not the egos.
You all could be so much, if you would leave the egos behind, and just be.

I noticed your account had been closed previously. Honestly Mr. Kashino, did you come back to share your insights and experiences in this art, to help us better understand it, or did you come back simply to take shots at someone you can't get along with? If it's the latter, please leave. I would love to hear the 'fun' stories, to understand the ideas, concepts and thoughts behind all the different interpretations of Arnis. I, and so many others here I think though, really don't need any more mud, hatred or BS.

I read back through this section. I saw the "Im king, no Im king" bickering right after Mr. Presas' death. The slams, shots and outright attacks on individuals and organizations. None of which did anyone any good I think. I read the crap surrounding the Presas family, Mr. Delaney, the MOTTS, the 4 way dance of infinity between Mr. Hartman, Mr. Worden, Mr. Anderson and your own instructor. I read the Symposium threads, the "NorShadow" situation, the MA80 war. All of it.

And I wonder why.
Why would I ever want to study a system that creates such hatred, such lack of respect, such immaturity. Why sir?

My understanding is that Mr. Presas on his deathbed asked Mr. Anderson to get involved. So, he did. Mr. Anderson is "doing his own thing", a statement repeated often by Mr. Worden, I believe. But they don't get along now.

I've read a great deal about each of these individuals. They all seem to have alot to offer, if we can ever wash away all the mud, the hate and the disrespect.

As I said, I'm a student of almost all the arts. Arnis sounds interesting, but one becomes a reflection of ones teachers. I don't like what I see in the Arnis teachers, or their students that represent them. Too much ego, too much anger, too much closemindedness.

Let them do their own thing, and you do yours. In the end, you will be reflected by those you've taught and influenced. Let Dan Anderson's legacy be his students and what he leaves to them. Same is true for them all.

 

[Bester]

To say that this **** is peculiar to Arnis is more than a little disingenuous too. I see this same type of stuff going on in many of the forums around here. The only difference possibly being a possible lack of other significant content in the Arnis forums....

Well, can't you people build some content, or is the only thing Arnis people can do is put each other down online?

No, it's not peculiar to Arnis. I've seen it in all the forums. But the crap:content ratio is so much higher here. I've been told that this is the best Modern Arnis forum around. If this is the best, I have to wonder about the worst, you know?

Wouldn't it make more sense to actually make it the best? You thought it was worth supporting, so did I. I looked in the video area. Not much in there. Why can't people send in clips of them showing what real Arnis is? I recall Kaith saying he'd happily host the clips if they were sent to him. Take the guy up on his offer. I mean, right now there are 5 MA clips, 1 an obvious "fantasy" piece with lightsabers. Nice edit, Nice form, but really, is that all? Has Mr. Hubbard so earned the hatred of the Modern Arnis community that they won't take him up on an offer of what is really free advertising? Kinda dumb in my opinion.

Rather than keep arguing, lets see all the masters and would-be masters send him in a few minutes each. Lets see it all, and then, lets talk about it all in here.

Or, we can keep the dirty laundry, egos, attitudes and stupidity going. Again, up to everyone here. Not me.

 

[Bester]

Another thing I couldn't resist...



Dan Anderson only wieghs 265 when he is carrying me on his back. :rofl:

The proper place for a tagteam partner is in the corner. Colins already there, so you'll have to leave sir. You can announce it though. Heres a mike. :wavey:

 

[DoxN4cer]

You sound a lot like someone else who posts here... almost like Tulisan. Hmmm...

From my observation, for someone who doesn't "need anymore mud, hatred
or BS" you sure have a habit of getting into the mix of it. It's like your
involvement helps keep it going, as if to guide and/or derail the topic. In
essence, you're helping perpetuate the strife.

My account had been closed due to in activity. Why did I come back?
I've got a case of desert insomnia, so I sat down at the nearest terminal
and started surfing. I must admit that I usually have far more important
things to do than fool around on the internet, but I have a lull in my
activities for the moment.

My "veiled" comments as you put it are more a show of support for
Dan Anderson and less of a snipe at certain people. I can see where you
might jump to that conclusion given one of my previous posts.

r/

Tim

 

[Bester]

Nope, not him. I'm me. I answered those questions a while ago dealing with the PowerRangers trainees.

No, I'm asking if you have anything to build this section up. Not continue your old wars. I read those tales. I read your part. I wasn't impressed. Few were I suspect.

So, going to kill the boredom with content, or going to continue to sling mud?

Lets try the content idea eh? New thread, tell us a story of a time you trained with Mr. Presas. Describe your black belt test. Were you nervous? Did you sweat? Did you throw up or turn pale from exhaustion? Have you brought anyone else up? If so, how did it feel when they tested? What technique really challenged you? What came naturally? Do you like pie? Have you seen videos by any of the Arnis seniors? Any good? Etc. Content Sir. Not mud.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

I looked in the video area. Not much in there. Why can't people send in clips of them showing what real Arnis is? I recall Kaith saying he'd happily host the clips if they were sent to him. Take the guy up on his offer. I mean, right now there are 5 MA clips, 1 an obvious "fantasy" piece with lightsabers. Nice edit, Nice form, but really, is that all? Has Mr. Hubbard so earned the hatred of the Modern Arnis community that they won't take him up on an offer of what is really free advertising?

I'll happily put up video clips if they are sent in. Link em right back to the sender, full credit, etc. I've got alot of new content to add to the library once I get done processing this last weekends footage, and I think I have some of Dan from one of the times he was in town. I'll check, but if he wants to send something in, I'll put it up. Same offer is there for anyone willing to send it in. Tim, Kelly, Dieter, Jeff, Dan etc. It's all good just a little different.

As to the hatred thing...I only know of 1 or 2 who might severely dislike me. I know of several who like me. A few aren't thrilled by me, some tolerate me, and I think most don't care or don't know me. *shrug* It's life, I deal.

 

[Tgace]

And since most of us have only met on the internet, there are times where we each cross into all those categories eh?

 

[DoxN4cer]

Yep. I have to agree with you, Bester... arguments on the internet are a lot like competing in the Special Olympics.

FWIW Bob; I don't dislike you. I don't know enough about you to like or dislike you. You do a pretty good job with MT though.

r/

Tim

 

[Dan Anderson]

Greetings Earth Creatures,

I was up in Canada for the weekend, blinked, and missed two whole pages worth. Wow! I think I'll dub this topic the "Phoenix topic" - it surfaces every so often from the dead.

Bester - My summer touring is pretty limited this year however I am teaching at a summer camp in North Carolina in a couple of weeks, hope to get to the Detroit area around August or September, and then I'll be in Tacoma August 26th or 29th, and then on Victoria Island on the 29th of September. You can get books/videos from my website www.danandersonkarate.com.

It appears this discussion has now been blown out of proportion (again). Those of you who support me I thank. Those who don't I thank as well. You make me strong.

A point I'd like to make is those who do not agree with me basically have a different viewpoint and that is the bottom line. I may or may not like that Tim Hartman or Kelly Worden disagree with how I am doing or what I call my Modern Arnis but it is their prerogative to do so. It is a free country and I support their right to disagree. I have too much to do to spend much energy on the "cyberbattle."

Oh...265 pounds??? Yikes! I just weighed myself yesterday and it only said 185. All for now.

Yours,
Dan Anderson

PS - Bester, despite the politics that arise from time to time, the art is absolutely wonderful.

 

[Cebu West]

I would like to set the record straight as to the presumed timing and intentions of the WMAA concerning this thread and Dan Anderson's MA-80.

At no time did we ever discuss any idea of sabotaging Dan's camp. Considering the fact that we were also conducting a camp during the time of this thread, it would serve no purpose to intentionally bring negativity to our own group. We do not appreciate Tim K's comments and his assumed know all attitude. People have known our position on this subject for some time now and also where Tim K's loyalties lie. Tim Hartman has never hidden his feelings on this subject so this is nothing new on his part.

As to the timing of his comments, that coincided with Dan's statement that his MA-80 was 90/95% Modern Arnis. Dan had never stated that before and when he did he drew the question, Then why a new system with a new name?
Tim K's quote below also justifies the same question.

Dan's presentaion of Modern Arnis/MA80 is clean and damn near unadulterated RP Modern Arnis.

Again I will say that we did not set this in motion.

Sal Todaro (Cebu West-WMAA)

 

[arnisador]

Which leads me to wonder, when we look at different schools of Karate, Ryu of Swordsmanship etc. what precentage of difference is there (or should there be) to be considered a legitimate "style". I believe that Politics, differences in philosophy and economics drove a lot of that in the past....

I'm reminded of the old saying, "A language is a dialect with an army and navy." To a linguist's point of view, Sedish/Norwegian, Spanish/Portuguese, etc., are just dialects of one language, while some "dialects" of Chinese are so far apart that they could be adjudged separate languages. But, politics intervenes...Spain and Portugal insist they're separate countries with their own languages, while China says they're one country with one language.

Maybe there's something similar with martial arts!

 

[arnisador]

I would have to agree with this. Sometimes in private he would say things differently than in public.

He liked to see people happy...a nice thought, but it did lead to some contradictions.

 

[Tgace]

I'm reminded of the old saying, "A language is a dialect with an army and navy." To a linguist's point of view, Sedish/Norwegian, Spanish/Portuguese, etc., are just dialects of one language, while some "dialects" of Chinese are so far apart that they could be adjudged separate languages. But, politics intervenes...Spain and Portugal insist they're separate countries with their own languages, while China says they're one country with one language.

Maybe there's something similar with martial arts!

Nice analogy.

Unless you are the French who want to keep their language pure by outlawing english words eh?

 

[arnisador]

Again I will say that we did not set this in motion.

Agreed. I don't recall anything like it coming up, and I think we had much more important things to worry about from the WMAA's point of view. What seems to have been the catalyst is the fact that someone placed a number on by what percent it had changed.

I like Mr. Anderson. I like his books. I like his analytical approach. I see the argument that if the art hasn't changed very much then one should err on the side of keeping things together--and I see the argument that a slight change of emphasis can lead to a large change as it ripples through the system. I see the argument that he has a small group and so this seems unnecessary--and I the the argument that expressing one's own view is expressing one's own view no matter what size the audience. Mr. Anderson is in the best position to determine where the line is in each case.

I am not sure I think it's a big enough change between Modern Arnis and MA-80 to justify a new name. There's at least as big a difference between the WMAA and either IMAF, and probably more between the WMAA and MARPPIO. I strongly believe, however, that Mr. Anderson is well within his rights, and that there's no reason he should care one way or the other what I think about it; it's his decision. I wish Mr. Anderson well.

 

[arnisador]

Unless you are the French

Hey, if you accuse me of being French, then we will have a fight on our hands!

 

[Tgace]

Engarde! (a little French lingo for ya there)


:jediduel:

 

[Dan Anderson]

I am not sure I think it's a big enough change between Modern Arnis and MA-80 to justify a new name. There's at least as big a difference between the WMAA and either IMAF, and probably more between the WMAA and MARPPIO. I strongly believe, however, that Mr. Anderson is well within his rights, and that there's no reason he should care one way or the other what I think about it; it's his decision. I wish Mr. Anderson well.

Arnisador,

Actually there is a pretty decent gap between the WMAA curriculum (from what I have seen of it) and MA-80. The first thing I can bring up is the different sections of WMAA curriculum such as the "Kali" section and so forth. I do not subdivide with Filipino names the different aspects of the art in my school. In fact, I use no Filipino terminology other than what you find in my books. RP didn't use them with me so I follow suit in kind. Thee and me have no arguement regarding the matter. In fact, I was thinking today that you and I get along the best of the WMAA crew. How's that for communicating over the airwaves? Thanks for the well wishes.

Anyone reading this thread, hope to see you in Brevard next week. We're going to have a hell of a camp! artyon:

Yours,
Dan Anderson

 

[arnisador]

In fact, I was thinking today that you and I get along the best of the WMAA crew.

Great minds think alike, I always say!