Oh, so that is you with Hayes? Sorry, wasn't trying to call you out, just it was out of context, I suppose. Cool!
Mr Hayes' original practices of ninjutsu
- Thread starter Senin
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Oh, so that is you with Hayes? Sorry, wasn't trying to call you out, just it was out of context, I suppose. Cool!
Nice pictures by the way. I do not think anyone is calling you out or discounting that you practiced with Stephen but using the Ninjitsu (the the extra i) spelling generally means that the person has trained with the neo ninjer's. It is almost always a clear give away.
Fortunately for you that is not the case but I would not use that spelling much if you want to be taken seriously.
Fortunately for you that is not the case but I would not use that spelling much if you want to be taken seriously.
kwaichang
Purple Belt
Life's a banquet and most poor suckers are starving to death.
No worries, after 30yrs I don't take anything seriously.
bigfootsquatch
Purple Belt
What do you think about the new study-at-home blackbelt Toshindo program Mr. Hayes has now? I've been wanting opinions from his older students and training partners, and now I found one!
kwaichang
Purple Belt
To be honest, I've not looked at the program. The idea of study at home at first seems odd. The web page says: "Train on your own, or test for colored belts by video (which means you do the techniques with someone, tape it, and send it in to him) and then take your Black Belt test at one of An-shu Stephen K. Hayes' testing seminars."
Now I have known a few people who have studied a martial art (not SKH's) on their own and then when they found a dojo, tested and did quite well, attaining a decent ranking.
However, training on your own and then going to a seminar to be tested for black belt, seems risky at best; both time and money spent could be waisted.
You can join SKH forum and submit questions to him and other members of the schools at
http://www.skhquest.com/forum.php
This would be your best opportunity to find out from SKH directly how it works. He's always given strict tests in the past so I'm a bit curious myself.
Now I have known a few people who have studied a martial art (not SKH's) on their own and then when they found a dojo, tested and did quite well, attaining a decent ranking.
However, training on your own and then going to a seminar to be tested for black belt, seems risky at best; both time and money spent could be waisted.
You can join SKH forum and submit questions to him and other members of the schools at
http://www.skhquest.com/forum.php
This would be your best opportunity to find out from SKH directly how it works. He's always given strict tests in the past so I'm a bit curious myself.
kwaichang
Purple Belt
FAQ on SKH's training at distance can be found:
http://www.skhquest.com/articles/DVDquestions.php
And the time involved is about 4 yrs.
http://www.skhquest.com/articles/videotestingforbelts.php
http://www.skhquest.com/articles/DVDquestions.php
And the time involved is about 4 yrs.
http://www.skhquest.com/articles/videotestingforbelts.php
ToShinDoKa
Green Belt
Hi Kwaichang,
My name's Scott, and I'm a Long Distance Student of the To-Shin Do Goshin Taijutsu program, as well as an active member of the SKHQuest Forums. So far I've taken about 7 different tests since my affiliation w/ the SKHQuest Centers, and I train periodically at the nearest dojo in North Carolina. Perhaps from my personal experience and collaboration I've had with other students and high ranking belt-holders in To-Shin Do, I can provide some degree of insight.
The SKH To-Shin Do program I can honestly say as a martial arts enthusiast and combat realist (I like the nitty gritty, down to earth, put a hurtin' on ya' stuff), it's one of the most comprehensive ways of studying I've personally experienced during my 14 years of martial arts study.
Mr. Hayes has gone to great lengths to make sure that each and every LDS has the opportunity to get as much feed back from Hombu in Ohio or from around the country from the other dedicated and charitable instructors. Testing by video is only ONE option for testing, and convenient for those located an outlandish distance away from a Quest Center.
My closest one is about 4 hrs away (3 when I'm driving
) and I usually test there. My next test may be by video, but the means of testing by video and what's expected are specific and detailed. Each of the Go-dai Elemental strategies has material dedicated to specifically test taking alone, by which you're shown and told what's to be expected, and with your material a progress sheet and notes are provided to add to your own notes to keep track of your progress, problems, and personal discoveries about what works for you!On vid tests, techniques are to be demonstrated from multiple angles and 'if' you pass or not, feedback is still given by a Master instructor to help you with how you can improve, because one can always improve, right? When going to the next belt level 'randori' may be demonstrated so they can see you react under pressure. Also, many of the Quest Center owners (in NC specifically) qualify to test LDS if they want to come up to the center, or hold a small seminar amongst their training partners in their home town.
They also have multiple seminars in which LDS are welcomed with open arms and 'encouraged strongly' to attend, in which I've personally received a wealth of knowledge and experience, training with different ages and sizes and regular students.
Now let's be realistic...training at a dojo is 'much better' than training long distance, even if you have a train group, instant access to To-Shin Do seniors through internet and video tutorials, and (in dojo) seminar or just 'come when you can' training for feedback, and tips and tricks, like I do. The thing is, when I cross train with my MMA friends down here, or I demonstrate for inquisitive individuals, telling them to "throw or do whatever you want," they 'don't believe' me when I say I train long distance because the strategy and understanding of the body-jutsu (lol) I've gained over these passed three years, has brought me to a place of understanding on not just fight, but 'winning' in general.
Katsu tame ni!
-Scott T. Ealey
Proud To-Shin Do Green/Black Stripe Belt
kwaichang
Purple Belt
I have had the same experience when I traveled to learn. It is a great opportunity and I'm very conscious of my good fortune.
Your input is invaluable, thank you.
Ninpo Ikkan!
Johan D'hondt
White Belt
hello,
there might be a slight mis-interpretation of the dvd series being an "easy way of getting a black belt"....
I would say that it is even harder to get your ranking as a long distance student....
when you have the luxury and comfort of training in a dojo where all your questions and "problems" are sorted out immediatly. As you are training by yourself, you will be forced to go trough the techniques step by step, making mistakes on the way trough, resulting in a maybe less than perfect performance.
Allowing yourself to make those mistakes will eventually make you feel even more confident "and happy" when after all you will attain a certain level of experience and proper performance.
from the point of view of Hombu dojo and An-Shu Hayes, with all the critisism about his programs and "controversial" ideas on the internet, he just has to be even more aware that each and every single long distance student submitting a test is worth the rank he is testing for! thus putting the bar maybe even a little bit higher...
(at least, I feel it that way....)
As to Mr Hayes' original practices of ninjustu....he got his original practices from Hatsumi sensei, so how more original can you get?
there might be a slight mis-interpretation of the dvd series being an "easy way of getting a black belt"....
I would say that it is even harder to get your ranking as a long distance student....
when you have the luxury and comfort of training in a dojo where all your questions and "problems" are sorted out immediatly. As you are training by yourself, you will be forced to go trough the techniques step by step, making mistakes on the way trough, resulting in a maybe less than perfect performance.
Allowing yourself to make those mistakes will eventually make you feel even more confident "and happy" when after all you will attain a certain level of experience and proper performance.
from the point of view of Hombu dojo and An-Shu Hayes, with all the critisism about his programs and "controversial" ideas on the internet, he just has to be even more aware that each and every single long distance student submitting a test is worth the rank he is testing for! thus putting the bar maybe even a little bit higher...
(at least, I feel it that way....)
As to Mr Hayes' original practices of ninjustu....he got his original practices from Hatsumi sensei, so how more original can you get?
Toshindo4ever
Yellow Belt
Indeed!
The great thing about Toshindo is that you can still get the original training that went on in the early days. The training in the Bujinkan now has been modified for all the students who have shown up for only a short while without the deep relationship Hatsumi sensei had with Anshu. There are things no longer taught in the Bujinkan but still found in Toshindo.
Jealous people have said that these things never came from Hatsumi sensei. They say that Anshu is now out of favor with him and has even been thrown out. But if you talk to Anshu, you will find the truth. The greatest source of authentic training as taught by Takamatsu O'sensei can only be found in Toshindo.
Examples, please.
bydand
Senior Master
I see some things never change. When are practitioners of my own art going to realize that it is no longer Ninjutsu, it is To-Shin Do plain and simple. Mr. Hayes has gone is own way. There is nothing wrong or embarrassing about that, but the constant "we are still Ninjutsu, we train the old way" is simply ludicrous. I trained with John Poliquin before there was a To-Shin Do, I have trained with John in the not so distant past as well. He has told me himself it is now a different art. One that is based on Ninjutsu, but growing and evolving everyday into something new. I still wear my gold Nin symbol on my Gi to remind me of the simple fact I was one of the very first student in To-Shin Do and to remind me of where we all got our start. I am proud to say I am one of the founding members of this art, but you will never hear me say it is the exact same as Ninjutsu anymore.
We do NOT train in the old way, shoot we don't train today like we did even 5 years ago, let alone 10 or 15 or longer.
We do NOT train in the old way, shoot we don't train today like we did even 5 years ago, let alone 10 or 15 or longer.
Exactly. If the training isn't evolving, then it's dead...
Toshindo4ever
Yellow Belt
But we do have all the knowledge that was taught in the early days and was dropped from the general Bujinkan because people would not commit like Anshu did.
Toshindo has everything the Bujinkan has, plus the experiences that Anshu had in the real world doing things like being a bodyguard for the Dali Lama. We don't train the same way, but we have all the old knowledge. And that drives some people to lie even about his relationship with Hatsumi sensei.
bydand
Senior Master
You should say that To-Shin Do has everything the Bujinkan HAD when he was very active within that organization. I am not going to rehash the whole Hayes/Hatsumi argument because short of being there we don't know what happened and all we have to go by is secondhand knowledge. Frankly, I believe there has been a falling out between the two; NOT THAT IT MATTERS TO US THOUGH! Yes I did yell that. What does it matter to our training, what their relationship is? The answer to that question is: that it doesn't matter one iota.
Please drop this crusade because it doesn't help a thing to bash an issue that is a couple of years old at this point. Train, move on past something that will not impact you ever, in your training. I also invite you to go to a Bujinkan school and see what they really are doing, there are some FINE people who train in them. And there is precious little you can bring they haven't seen already. There is nothing wrong with our art being our art, it doesn't have to be better than where it came from, but it is different now. What does it really matter if Hayes and Hatsumi exchange Christmas cards and Grandbaby pictures, or if they hate each other.
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I'll be blunt. How do you know they're lying, other than Hayes told you so?
bydand
Senior Master
It says I have to spread it around some before giving you some rep Kreth. I owe you a few.
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