Kosho Ryu?

[Danjo]

Yes, but the trial transcript reads more like he went to get the money and when the fight began, this mode kicked on:





At first I didn't understand this comment, but now it makes a lot more sense. Pre-Fulsom, Mitose taught any means to an end. Once in Fulsom Mitose taught this:



I'm starting to understand better now.

Thanks,

Ben

 

[Danjo]

Which Natural Law do you mean? wiki alone has about 6 different meanings:

1.1 Aristotle
1.2 Stoic natural law
1.3 Christian natural law
1.4 Hobbes' natural law
1.5 Liberal natural law
Contemporary Catholic Understanding
In contemporary jurisprudence

Ancient Kosho Secret: What goes up, must come down.

 

[Benjp]

Ancient Kosho Secret: What goes up, must come down.

Dang it, Dan! That was going to be my black belt thesis..

 

[KenpoDave]

"Whenever you cross swords with an enemy you must not think of cutting him either strongly or weakly; just think of cutting and killing him. Be intent solely on killing the enemy. Do not try to cut strongly and, of course, do not think of cutting weakly. You should only be concerned with killing the enemy."---Miyamoto Musashi

Yes, Musashi said this. And he used wooden swords later in life to keep from killing his opponents.

Perspectives change.

As a newcomer to the arts, I preferred the more violent, decisive types of techniques. Now I prefer to start with less violent, more controlling tactics and escalate if necessary. Perhaps someday I will be good enough to just stare someone into submission. Or even better, I will be the guy who never gets attacked.

 

[John Bishop]

I guess some of us are also wondering what techniques and/or principles may be unique to Kosho?
In my research of various martial arts systems, I've found that some like to use "catch phrases" to describe some principle that is in play in various techniques. Phrases like "gravitational marriage" in EPAK, and "natural laws" in Kosho. After close examination of what these phrases mean, I usually end up finding that they are common principles found in most martial arts. The only thing different is the catch phrase.
I may or may not be correct. But from what I've read so far about "natural laws", is that it applies to rules of nature concerning the human body and environment.
So, as a example: If I sweep an attackers legs out from under him, the "natural law" of gravity takes place, and the attacker falls to the floor. And if I apply a wrist lock or armbar to an attacker, the attackers limb is pushed or turned past the body's natural range of motion, and pain or injury to the limb occurs.
Now these are very common principles in all martial arts. So, I guess my question is; is there anything unique in Kosho techniques or principles, that is not also common in other martial arts?

 

[Danjo]

Yes, Musashi said this. And he used wooden swords later in life to keep from killing his opponents.

Perspectives change.

As a newcomer to the arts, I preferred the more violent, decisive types of techniques. Now I prefer to start with less violent, more controlling tactics and escalate if necessary. Perhaps someday I will be good enough to just stare someone into submission. Or even better, I will be the guy who never gets attacked.

Well, until I get my Chi Strikes perfected, I'll stick with hitting people with my fists.

 

[MJS]

Mike,

No one from Kosho has said there is not a curriculum. Some skeptics have tried to insuate that.

Hanshi Juchnik did put forth a curriculum over 20 years ago but he does allow his instructors alot of discretion as to their own schools. So in actuality there's a number of curriculum.

_Don Flatt

Ok, thanks. I think I may have been getting confused when there was discussion of the preset techs. that you'd find in EPAK compared to the non preset moves in Kosho.

Interesting thread BTW. Certainly providing a good history lesson.

Mike

 

[Benjp]

In my research of various martial arts systems, I've found that some like to use "catch phrases" to describe some principle that is in play in various techniques. Phrases like "gravitational marriage" in EPAK, and "natural laws" in Kosho. After close examination of what these phrases mean, I usually end up finding that they are common principles found in most martial arts. The only thing different is the catch phrase.
I may or may not be correct. But from what I've read so far about "natural laws", is that it applies to rules of nature concerning the human body and environment.
So, as a example: If I sweep an attackers legs out from under him, the "natural law" of gravity takes place, and the attacker falls to the floor. And if I apply a wrist lock or armbar to an attacker, the attackers limb is pushed or turned past the body's natural range of motion, and pain or injury to the limb occurs.
Now these are very common principles in all martial arts. So, I guess my question is; is there anything unique in Kosho techniques or principles, that is not also common in other martial arts?

You're exactly right! Great post, Mr. Bishop.

I don't think that there is anything unique in Kosho techniques or principles..

What makes Kosho unique is that it uses principles from all martial arts. Very few hard-style martial arts incorporate catch phrases from tai chi.. Similarly, very few soft-style martial arts incorporate catch phrases unique to kenpo.

One can take advantage of "catch phrases" to disable an opponent without touching them. You may prefer to punch and strike, but it's a lot of fun to see someone trip all over themselves.. And I'm not talking chi strikes..

Here's a "natural law": people react when surprised.
Here's another "natural law": people don't like to get hurt.

Have you ever flinched, or recoiled from something? Can you cause an attacker to flinch/recoil? Does it require striking? Does it require a chi strike to make an attacker flinch? How can making the attacker flinch make self defense easier? What is the most simple way to make someone flinch?

By answering these questions you'll be doing Kosho, even if the answer is an SKK form or a Kajukenbo combo .

Regards,

Ben

 

[Danjo]

You're exactly right! Great post, Mr. Bishop.

I don't think that there is anything unique in Kosho techniques or principles..

What makes Kosho unique is that it uses principles from all martial arts. Very few hard-style martial arts incorporate catch phrases from tai chi.. Similarly, very few soft-style martial arts incorporate catch phrases unique to kenpo.

One can take advantage of "catch phrases" to disable an opponent without touching them. You may prefer to punch and strike, but it's a lot of fun to see someone trip all over themselves.. And I'm not talking chi strikes..

Here's a "natural law": people react when surprised.
Here's another "natural law": people don't like to get hurt.

Have you ever flinched, or recoiled from something? Can you cause an attacker to flinch/recoil? Does it require striking? Does it require a chi strike to make an attacker flinch? How can making the attacker flinch make self defense easier? What is the most simple way to make someone flinch?

By answering these questions you'll be doing Kosho, even if the answer is an SKK form or a Kajukenbo combo .

Regards,

Ben

So Jack Dempsey was Kosho too? Yowza! When he said to throw a feint up high to get the guy to move his hands up and the work his midsection, he was really stealing that concept from Kosho? I always thought he was boxing. Hmmmmm.....

 

[Danjo]

Famous Concepts Of Kosho​

​

• What goes up must come down.
• People don’t like to get hurt.
• People tend to flinch if you throw a punch at them.
• Nature abhors a vacuum.
• Objects in motion tend to stay in motion.
• If I am cut, do I not bleed?
• Would a rose by any other name smell just as sweet?
• For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
• You can run but you can’t hide.
• What goes around comes around.
• You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, and those are pretty good odds.
• In space, no one can hear you scream.

 

[Benjp]

So Jack Dempsey was Kosho too? Yowza! When he said to throw a feint up high to get the guy to move his hands up and the work his midsection, he was really stealing that concept from Kosho? I always thought he was boxing. Hmmmmm.....

He didn't steal it, he licensed its use from James Mitose.. The records are posted on the Tracy website .

Great example of Kosho!

Was Jack Dempsey reacting to an attack, or was he setting up his opponent?

Kosho is preparatory--the goal is to influence the attacker's next movement instead of reacting to it.

What goes up must come down.
People don’t like to get hurt.
People tend to flinch if you throw a punch at them.
Nature abhors a vacuum.
Objects in motion tend to stay in motion.
If I am cut, do I not bleed?
Would a rose by any other name smell just as sweet?
For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
You can run but you can’t hide.
What goes around comes around.
You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, and those are pretty good odds.
In space, no one can hear you scream.

Good ones! I found that the "rose by any other name" concept class was difficult . You should find a kosho school just so you can experience our "in space, no one can hear you scream" sessions!

Ben

 

[Danjo]

He didn't steal it, he licensed its use from James Mitose.. The records are posted on the Tracy website .

Great example of Kosho!

Was Jack Dempsey reacting to an attack, or was he setting up his opponent?

Kosho is preparatory--the goal is to influence the attacker's next movement instead of reacting to it.



Good ones! I found that the "rose by any other name" concept class was difficult . You should find a kosho school just so you can experience our "in space, no one can hear you scream" sessions!

Ben

Dempsey was setting him up.

I left out the "sound of one hand clapping" concept.

 

[koshonokenza]

Danjo, I am glad my posts are to your likeing,my goal is to try to give you any info I can to the best of my ability. The first thing you need to realize is there is alot of unfourtunate inconsistancy regarding the information on Kosho Ryu. For instance Mitose wrote three books which were published. (In Search of Kenpo,What Is Self Defense and What Is True Self Defense) The later of the three books was written while Mitose Sensei was in jail and if you have the oppurtunity to read it you will see that Mitose was very stratigic in the way he said things. I think alot of this was due to the crime he was convicted of.

Now regardless of weather Mitose was guilty or innocent of that crime really doesn't matter now! Everyone has their own opinion on that . The thing that many people don't realize is that Mitose had planned to write 9 more book's on the art of Kosho Ryu. What is True Self Defense was the first volume. Perhaps if Mitose had not died we would have a much greater insight into his Family art. But the bottom line is that he is dead and it has left alot of questions unanswered. Thomas Barros Mitose,Nimir Hassan(Terry Lee),Ray Arquilla,Euguene Sedano and Bruce Juchnik for that matter, did not spend enough time with Mitose to get all the answers that people in the Kempo world today want!

I chose to train under the direction of Hanshi Bruce Juchnik, not because of his ligitamicy, I could care less about that. Personally, I think what the man teaches is extremly valuble , Both on a physical spiritual and yes "Philisophical" level too. Again "and I need to stress this "I do not think Kosho Ryu is the only art that has these advanced concepts and superior martial stratagies. That is nonsense,I have had the oppurtunity to train with Teachers in other styles who can move and demonstrate the same understandings my teachers in Kosho can.

All art forms are a vehicle to a greater understanding of ones self. You Study Kajukenbo correct? This is a wonderful martial art with many great practitioners,they are all on a path to undertstand the teachings of Kajukenbo passed on from the founders. You have many questions about Kosho Ryu, this pleases me because I look for the oppourtunity to share the many wonderful things I have experienced being a student of this Art. I appologize if your past experience with regards to questions you wanted answered was vague or cryptic. I give you my word, any question you have that I have an answer to, I will give to you directly. Some questions however I may not be able to answer in a public domain as I have a responsability to my Teacher and fellow practitioners in my organization. If you would like my personal contact info please feel free to message me and I will give it to you. I may have a solution to many of your unanswered questions if you get in contact with me.

John, I first need to make sure that you understand I am only here to help educate people to the best of my abilities as to what Kosho Ryu is all about.. I don't want you to think that what you are doing is in some way wrong,however questions posted by people in regards to curriculm in Kosho ryu need to be answered based on fact, and the fact is That Hanshi Juchnik did create a curriculum, in fact he has video's with a majority of that core curriculm (Kyu tapes 8th-3rd).And yes, studying the concepts and principles of Kosho Ryu is the most important aspect of the study of Kosho Ryu. Hanshi does give every student the freedom to do that,that is part of what makes it so easy to be a part of the SKSKI. I also don't feel that it is important you disclose your rank given to you by Juchnik Hanshi. Hanshi Ranks people based on many different catagories, and you are a very capable martial artist, but that doesn't excuse you or any one else from learning the complete art.

You are right when you say that many of the practitioners of Kosho Ryu do not know the entire curriculm, or can meet the requirements of each rank. Personally I find this embarrising. There really is not as much as some people would be lead to believe that is required to be learned at each rank. The problem is that if you are teaching a set curriculum and then try to throw in all the requirements in Kosho Ryu then it becomes to much for the student. If I am teaching Brazilian JiuJitsu for example and then throw in kodokan judo's curriculum to be memorized as well ,my students would be overwhelmed. Teaching Kosho Ryu concepts within an already exsisting style of martial arts is fine,however to better understand Kosho Ryu the curriculum that was established by Hanshi should be followed,seeing as he was put in position to " Do whatever he sees fit for Kosho Shorei Ryu" by Mitose Sensei.

I appreciate your compliments in regard to my ability as a Kosho practitioner, please understand that I don't wish to attack your integrity as a representitive of Kosho Ryu, I think your a great guy John, but it is also my job as a representitive of the SKSKI and Bruce Juchnik Hanshi's to educate anyone that may be misinformed in certain area's of their studies.Hanshi, as you know ,is a very busy man and does not always have time to keep tabs on everything that is going on in everyones dojo.He is however starting to hold all instructors accountable for the material they are required to know at their rank, this includes kata,history,concepts and theories,Bunkai and basics.Hopefully this will help the problem we have with students not knowing what they should at each rank.

I wish you continued growth in your studies, and hope that both you and your family are well.

Yours in the Arts
Tony DiSarro

 

[Carol]

Thanks for all the time you have spent explaining Kosho, Mr. Disarro. :asian:

 

[BlackCatBonz]

1.I guess some of us are also wondering what techniques and/or principles may be unique to Kosho?

2.In my research of various martial arts systems, I've found that some like to use "catch phrases" to describe some principle that is in play in various techniques. Phrases like "gravitational marriage" in EPAK, and "natural laws" in Kosho. After close examination of what these phrases mean, I usually end up finding that they are common principles found in most martial arts. The only thing different is the catch phrase.

3.I may or may not be correct. But from what I've read so far about "natural laws", is that it applies to rules of nature concerning the human body and environment.
So, as a example: If I sweep an attackers legs out from under him, the "natural law" of gravity takes place, and the attacker falls to the floor. 4.And if I apply a wrist lock or armbar to an attacker, the attackers limb is pushed or turned past the body's natural range of motion, and pain or injury to the limb occurs.

Now these are very common principles in all martial arts. So, I guess my question is; is there anything unique in Kosho techniques or principles, that is not also common in other martial arts?

Danjo, here is a little quote from Yukiyoshi Takamura of Shindo Yoshin Ryu;

How did you come to reorganize the traditional curriculum of Shindo Yoshin-ryu?

That is a very complex question. Let me see if I can explain it clearly. Any martial art is really a set of concepts and ideas. Physical techniques are important but not the defining elements of a style. I have heard some people say that this is not true, that they have secret techniques. So what! I bet another style has techniques that are similar to their “secret techniques.” I would guess that what they actually have is more correctly described as secret concepts. All jujutsu traditions do similar joint locks because the joints in all human beings operate in the same way. There really are no new joint locks. It’s how they perform the locks that differentiate the styles. The concepts used in the application of the locks are what are important. These aspects are what make one tradition different from another. They are often the okuden.
When I came to America I discovered that many traditional techniques were simply not applicable to the realities facing my new students. Jujutsu techniques in their original form were not intended to address these modern situations. When I first started teaching, students began to ask me how I would deal with a boxer, or with a karateka and so on. At first I was surprised because I was not sure that I had the answers. I had to carefully examine this. I realized that the answers were right in front of me. I was busy focusing on jujutsu techniques when it was jujutsu concepts that were the solution. Techniques did not matter because they were guided by concepts. New techniques could be devised to address new realities while embracing the time honored concepts that form the art’s core. This would not be abandoning the art. This would allow the art to maintain its effectiveness and relevance to a new generation and era.

This in a nutshell describes the study of kosho.....quite simple really.
All of the other stuff is icing that we get to add to our cake.
Some folks tend to not look at kata like something special......but it really does bring something.

Traditional arts do not always traditionally teach the art from a catalogue of techniques......you may learn a few to develop a feel for a concept or principle that is directly applicable to all techniques.
Unless you understand that......a student wouldn't traditionaly move on to the okuden study of an art because they don't get it.

John, you make some great points.
I've numbered the ones I would like to address to make it easier to all reading.

1. I would say that principles being universal in nature are not uniquely Kosho.
I know that phrase in and of itself seems somewhat like double-speak because it sounds like I am saying no art is unique.
The emphasis is on which principles are concentrated upon to define the ryu.
I would like to direct your attention back to the Takamura quote; I have highlighted the portions of the quote applicable to this discussion.
There are no techniques unique to kosho.....we do kote gaeshi the same way they do it in yanagi ryu, the wrist is flexed and turned laterally causing a shift in weight.
The difference is how we get there.
What concept or principle we use to apply the lock is what makes our approach different from say aikido.
Is it a secret concept? nope. But I would be willing to bet the farm, if I showed you, it would be a bit different from how you do it.......because you might use the same concept or principle but in another application.
So there you have it.....1 technique, 1 principle, or maybe several principles working together.

"Always move twice, go back to where you were last."

This is one of the main principles in Kosho.
What does it mean?
exactly what it says.

2. This is very true. But that doesn't take away from the fact that different art's have different flavours. It's these flavours that create the differences we see in virtually the same technique.
When I throw someone, it looks different from how a silat guy might throw someone, but the guy getting thrown still winds up in the same spot.

3. Yes. But now we have to see if we agree on what would be considered a law.
In Kosho, movement follows the head.......some guys will disagree. But for our art, that is an important concept.
The body has a certain way of twisting, bending, folding and reacting based on anatomy and physiology. This is part of the natural law we talk about......nothing mystical.
Fighting is unnatural (i know, more disagreement), so, we study natural movement and train our bodies to move correctly to evade and use our opponents natural response against them.....again, simple principle of "ju".
Understanding how the eyes see in conflict is another kosho concept......do you do it?
maybe.......cant say for sure, but we have a specific set of rules governing engagement based on the rudiments of kenjutsu as they apply to timing and distance. These same rules directly apply to the empty hand arts. Once again, no real techniques per se, but rather a set of rules applied to drills to teach you when and where to move.

4. Pain or injury is not always neccessary for compliance. The body is a biological machine that is covered with buttons and several levers.
Kosho is how we work those buttons and levers........just the same as you do in your art.

 

[Kosho Gakkusei]

A key principle in Kosho would also be the use of the Octagon in escaping being the fist thing you do. I like the way Shawn puts it - tactical repositioning. This is not necessarily just for runing away but if you want to hit someone it's better if you first escape from or evade the other person's attack or center. The same applies to blocks & throws as well as getting out of grabs or locks. What's studied is using each angle with attacks from every angle and achieving 90 degree positioning to avoid taking on body mass and create a timing advantage.

_Don Flatt

 

[Kosho-Monk]

Hi Tony,

First let me say that I don't feel attacked and I am quite comfortable with my integrity. I believe I have always stated that my comments come from the way Kosho is practiced at my dojo - which is different then other dojos. But I do appreciate you stating that you're not attacking my integrity.

I do know there is a curriculum and I have all of the kyu tapes and understand what Hanshi requires. I can't do all of that but continue to work on it. If I don't get it all in this life, then perhaps I can keep working on it in the next one.

I was thinking that perhaps there is much confusion around requirements and what to practice because the studens are given so much freedom. And since rank is awarded without regards to curriculum I think that can add to the confusion as well.

I'm not complaining though. I like the way things are structured because it gives each individual the ability to explore and grow in the areas that are calling them. I like being able to work on sword for a while and then switching to escrima and then to katas. I would never follow a dogmatic way of doing things because it goes against what I believe.

Plus I have heard Hanshi say many times that we must break out of our "box". For me sticking with a set curriculum can create boxes and stunt our growth as martial artists.

I don't think students who are missing lots of the curriculum is embarrassing. I think as long as they are continuing to train and are progressing on their path, then that's good. Would you agree that one who is studying martial arts without predjudice is studying Kosho?

Or maybe I can ask the question differently... what qualifies as the study of Kosho?

Another thought that just came to mind about curriculum is that a strict curriculum creates a system. And Hanshi has stated many times that Kosho is not a system of martial arts. I view the curriculum as a means to a goal. But certainly not the goal itself.

My simple equation is this: set curriculum = box, unlimited studies = unlimited growth.

Maybe you could answer this question for me, too. About ranking. I know that lots of Kosho students don't like to say what their dan ranking is.... why? I'm proud of my rank and continue to work hard every day to earn it again. When someone asks me what my rank is in Kosho I tell them. And usually when I say it, it goes something like this, "Hanshi has awarded me with a second degree black belt in Kosho. I'm not sure I really deserve the rank, but perhaps Hanshi sees something in me that I don't." I was even asked to be one of the shihans a couple years ago. I'm not because of personal reasons I won't go into here. But I was honored just to be asked.

As for Hanshi - I think most people know that his skills and knowledge surpass that of most other martial artists. The guy is, IMO, way beyond the ordinary level of martial arts. I'm not sure how is mind can contain all that he knows, but in many was I must say I'm jealous. I have a hard enough time remember to pick up milk on my way home!

Anyway, great conversation. I enjoy talking about martial arts more than any other topic.

Tony, I hope you and your family is well, too. I look foward to seeing you again in the future.


Time to veiw the rank tapes again!


-John

 

[Danjo]

Hi Tony,

First let me say that I don't feel attacked and I am quite comfortable with my integrity. I believe I have always stated that my comments come from the way Kosho is practiced at my dojo - which is different then other dojos. But I do appreciate you stating that you're not attacking my integrity.

I do know there is a curriculum and I have all of the kyu tapes and understand what Hanshi requires. I can't do all of that but continue to work on it. If I don't get it all in this life, then perhaps I can keep working on it in the next one.

I was thinking that perhaps there is much confusion around requirements and what to practice because the studens are given so much freedom. And since rank is awarded without regards to curriculum I think that can add to the confusion as well.

I'm not complaining though. I like the way things are structured because it gives each individual the ability to explore and grow in the areas that are calling them. I like being able to work on sword for a while and then switching to escrima and then to katas. I would never follow a dogmatic way of doing things because it goes against what I believe.

Plus I have heard Hanshi say many times that we must break out of our "box". For me sticking with a set curriculum can create boxes and stunt our growth as martial artists.

I don't think students who are missing lots of the curriculum is embarrassing. I think as long as they are continuing to train and are progressing on their path, then that's good. Would you agree that one who is studying martial arts without predjudice is studying Kosho?

Or maybe I can ask the question differently... what qualifies as the study of Kosho?

Another thought that just came to mind about curriculum is that a strict curriculum creates a system. And Hanshi has stated many times that Kosho is not a system of martial arts. I view the curriculum as a means to a goal. But certainly not the goal itself.

My simple equation is this: set curriculum = box, unlimited studies = unlimited growth.

Maybe you could answer this question for me, too. About ranking. I know that lots of Kosho students don't like to say what their dan ranking is.... why? I'm proud of my rank and continue to work hard every day to earn it again. When someone asks me what my rank is in Kosho I tell them. And usually when I say it, it goes something like this, "Hanshi has awarded me with a second degree black belt in Kosho. I'm not sure I really deserve the rank, but perhaps Hanshi sees something in me that I don't." I was even asked to be one of the shihans a couple years ago. I'm not because of personal reasons I won't go into here. But I was honored just to be asked.

As for Hanshi - I think most people know that his skills and knowledge surpass that of most other martial artists. The guy is, IMO, way beyond the ordinary level of martial arts. I'm not sure how is mind can contain all that he knows, but in many was I must say I'm jealous. I have a hard enough time remember to pick up milk on my way home!

Anyway, great conversation. I enjoy talking about martial arts more than any other topic.

Tony, I hope you and your family is well, too. I look foward to seeing you again in the future.


Time to veiw the rank tapes again!


-John

There is a pretty big danger in this thinking as well. The freedom you're talking about can also be used as a cover for unwillingness to learn something new. "It's all Kosho as long as it's approached with an open mind" sounds nice, but it lacks any real bite.

The advantage to having a set curriculum through the intitial black belt level is that you know that the student has sufficiently mastered the concepts that you are trying to teach. Techniques and forms are physicallly codified manifestations of whatever concepts your art is teaching. Each belt level will have certain requirements that embody those concepts and must be minimally mastered before progression to the next level. This is not a barrier to one that wants to go further in their learning and creativity. Sijo Emperado has always told his instructors to be creative, but it doesn't mean that they are allowed to free style the whole system and call it Kajukenbo. You have to have a solid base to work from. Creativity comes after you have successfully mastered the established basics.

This is why I was wondering whether Kosho Ryu was merely a philosophy like JKD, or whether it was an art that could be taught and learned. The question has been answered pretty well in a few of the posts I think.

It sounds to me like learning the actual curriculum of an art would be an easier and more efficient way of insuring that this was done properly than rearranging another system like SKK to try and meet the same conceptual needs. It sounds like you are seeing Kosho Ryu as more of a philosophy. If that's the case then fine, but I don't see how one can achieve rank in a philosophy.

 

[Kosho Gakkusei]

Danjo,

You bring some good points up about the differences between a system and philosophy. I think Tony Disarro answered how that relates to Kosho a few pages back with this post.

This post is most directly aimed toward answering many of the excellent questions posted by Danjo. Lets start by explaining that "Kosho Ryu Kempo" is a martial art style with a set minimum required curriculum to Black Belt ,regardless of what other people may be saying.This was set by Hanshi Bruce Juchnik himself over 20 years ago! Weather people follow or are ranked in accordance to these minimum requirements is a whole other issue.. "Kosho Shorei Ryu" is a philosophical self study,not a martial art! I think many people making posts here are confused about this.

I agree with your thoughts about a set curriculum and it's benefits. It sounds like that is the approach followed by Tony but not by John Evans. John has adapted his former SKK training to fit Kosho Shorei Ryu's philosophies. Personally, I don't train any of the Self Defense Techniques or Katas from my previous art which was a blended derivative of Tracy Kenpo & Aikido. I don't even regard my previous rank. To me coming into Kosho marked a new begining in my training, even my approach to basics such as stances, blocks, and strikes are completely different. I've seen both John & Tony in action and what they both do looks like Kosho to me.

_Don Flatt

 

[Danjo]

Right. I still don't see how someone can have rank in something described as "Kosho Shorei Ryu" is a philosophical self study,not a martial art"

If it's not a martial art, then how can one hold rank in it?

Danjo,

You bring some good points up about the differences between a system and philosophy. I think Tony Disarro answered how that relates to Kosho a few pages back with this post.



I agree with your thoughts about a set curriculum and it's benefits. It sounds like that is the approach followed by Tony but not by John Evans. John has adapted his former SKK training to fit Kosho Shorei Ryu's philosophies. Personally, I don't train any of the Self Defense Techniques or Katas from my previous art which was a blended derivative of Tracy Kenpo & Aikido. I don't even regard my previous rank. To me coming into Kosho marked a new begining in my training, even my approach to basics such as stances, blocks, and strikes are completely different. I've seen both John & Tony in action and what they both do looks like Kosho to me.

_Don Flatt