Is it OK for my child to be humiliated?

[Tez3]

I assume that's for my post, well it is what it is, many parents here don't consider self defence to be high on the list of things their children need to know and there's little to disprove them wrong. Very few people actually meet with violence in their lives so you can't blame them for thinking that way.

 

[ballen0351]

I assume that's for my post, well it is what it is, many parents here don't consider self defence to be high on the list of things their children need to know and there's little to disprove them wrong. Very few people actually meet with violence in their lives so you can't blame them for thinking that way.

no it was for the OP not yours. I typed a long post but realized it would be seen as rude so I didnt post it. I agree with your post

 

[Tez3]

No worries.

many years ago I was a Cub leader and we were playing a game in the hall where I'd shout out something ie a colour, a fabric, a texture etc and the boys would run to touch it. It was back in the day where kids still wore leather shoes lol so I said 'touch leather' the boys all dived flat out to my feet and touched my boots, they were all lying there touching my feet when the District Commissioner walked in............................

 

[Steve]

For many such as Quakers this is a matter of faith and belief, pacifist to the core they will not fight. Many people do not believe in fighting and will stick to that position, that is their right and should no more be judged for that than you should for making your children fight.

Complicated topic. One of my long time friends is a Quaker, and she's pretty darned fierce. While she isn't a violent person, she is a strong advocate for her kids. When her kids were school aged (they're all adults now), she was not at all conflict avoidant, and wouldn't hesitate to get involved. I have no doubt she would readily confront a martial arts instructor whom she believed acted out of turn.

Quakers are also a good illustration of my tongue and cheek comment earlier. She is a pacifist, but I've also seen her act in her own self defense. While she would not engage in violence, self defense is not synonymous with violence.

 

[Lameman]

My style of fighting is so heavily focused on defending myself that I can't use it agressivly at all. You either attack me, or we just stand there. And I have been in many situations where fighting and self defence were not synonymous. When I was 4 I had to fight a 12 year old and his twin brother, and I deformed that poor guy. Didn't realize how badly I had hurt him until I ran into him eight years later and saw what I had made him live with. I made a vow with myself that day, to never do that again if I could help it. Smetimes, it is better to take a beating then to give one. Kinda off subject.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Why should they see the importance to you of activities? some activities have what appears to be no or little importance, daydreaming for example but are actually very important for a child's development.

Not sure what you mean. I'm not saying that thinks like daydreaming aren't important for a child's development. A child doesn't have to see the importance of an activity. That's my job as a parent to recognize the importance of an activity, which also includes recognizing when my child thinks something is important. Some activities my child may think are important can actually be harmful. So as the parent who has been on the planet for 40+ years vs the child who has been on the planet for less than 18 years. I have to use my experience with life to help guide the child in a non destructive manner.

For many such as Quakers this is a matter of faith and belief, pacifist to the core they will not fight. Many people do not believe in fighting and will stick to that position, that is their right and should no more be judged for that than you should for making your children fight.

In my book choosing not to learn how to defend yourself because it's your religion is not the same as someone who chooses not to learn to defend themselves because they don't think it's important. The entire basis of religion is to follow a set of rules and beliefs that have been determined by a higher being as to be important. Those rules have nothing to do with self-defense, fighting, and protecting ones self because they are "Ultimate Rules without exceptions." With stuff like that even the things the person thinks are important may not be done because the religion says so. The people I was referring to aren't people who are bound by their religion. The people I'm referring to are the everyday person who thinks that they don't need to learn how to protect themselves solely on the assumption that "They will never need it." We are the only organism on the planet that think this way. I'm not sure why humans (I'm not talking about the Quakers) think this, when on a cellular our bodies are fighting and are in self-defense mode all the time.

We come from very different societies, fighting for most parents here is something alien, something they have never needed to do and don't see the need for their children to do, like the gun and being armed issues it's something not considered here and in fact not in a lot of other places either. that's not sticking our heads in the sand by the way but a recognition that we live differently.

Even though we are from different societies I understand what you are saying and how peoples environments play a role in what they think as being important.

The best comparison that I can think of is the perception of the seat belt. The majority of the people we know aren't going to be in a serious car accident. So just because people aren't likely to be in a serious car accident doesn't mean the seat belt less important or has no value. People who don't wear seat belts are mainly the ones who don't think they will be in an accident or don't care if are. Those who wear seat belts rather have one just in case that unlikely possibility of an serious accident happens. A person's driving skills may result in the person going through their entire life without ever having the need for the seat beat. Then you have people like my friend who never used a seat belt until he had his accident where his body slammed into the steering wheel so hard that it bent the steering wheel. Now he doesn't have that same perception about seat beats and he always uses a seat belt now. This is how I self defense (which includes knowing how to fight).

Usually the things that rarely happen are the same things that are the most serious when it does happen, people are thankful those things that initially seem unimportant were done. This also ties back into what you were saying about child development and the activities that they do. A smaller activity such as spending a few quality minutes with a child may have a much bigger impact and importance than what the parent may realize.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I made a vow with myself that day, to never do that again if I could help it. Smetimes, it is better to take a beating then to give one. Kinda off subject.

I understand what you are saying, but keep in mind that the guy you injured was the one that took the beating.

 

[lklawson]

Some don't even put them in for discipline. Its an hour a day three days a week where they have a free babysitter. That's all they care about.

Free?

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[Tez3]

People who don't wear seat belts are mainly the ones who don't think they will be in an accident or don't care if are.

Not wearing a seatbelt in Europe and the UK is illegal so people don't have the choice.

As a parent who has been on this planet for 60+ years I've learnt that children are a lot smarter than we ever give them credit for. Yes we protect them but we really need to listen to them as well.

I also know from experience that people when they need to can and will fight very successfully without having lessons. The old cliché about the size of the fight in the dog comes to mind here.

When I was 4 I had to fight a 12 year old and his twin brother, and I deformed that poor guy.

So, you were 4 years old and you took on two 12 year olds and won, not only won but actually disabled one. And you really expect us to take that at face value?

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Free?

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

Meant free as in free of worry-they are with all the other kids. I used an incredibly wrong word to describe that...Never heard of a 'free' kids class

 

[lklawson]

Meant free as in free of worry-they are with all the other kids. I used an incredibly wrong word to describe that...Never heard of a 'free' kids class

I only mentioned it because I found it amusing.

I've heard other instructors complain before that parents drop their kids off and expect them to babysit. They then complain that if parents wanted that, the actual day-care is cheaper.

I also find this amusing. If you're going to teach kids, you gotta accept the fact that there are going to be some parents who's only goal is to get the kids out of their hair for a while. Suck it up or don't teach kids.

As far as I'm, personally, concerned, I don't really care. I won't teach western martial arts to kids (bowie knife, etc.) but Judo, yeah. If the parents want to get the kids out of their hair for a while, then fine, whatever. But the parents have to understand that the kids will be performing their same activities as the rest and will have to abide by the same "rules" as everyone else, including dojo etiquette, uniforms, or whatever else. When their kids are there, they're going to be doing martial arts, not paint-by-numbers or duck-duck-goose, regardless of what the parents true goals are. <shrug>

That said, I always encourage parents to join with their kids or, at the very least, sit quietely and watch.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[JowGaWolf]

Not wearing a seatbelt in Europe and the UK is illegal so people don't have the choice.

It's the same in the U.S.. Keep in mind that illegal means it's against the law. It doesn't mean people don't have a choice. People choose to follow the law or choose not to follow the law.

As a parent who has been on this planet for 60+ years I've learnt that children are a lot smarter than we ever give them credit for. Yes we protect them but we really need to listen to them as well.

I totally agree with that.and now that you've stated you have been on the planet for 60+ years I'll be listening to you much closely now as well. So feel free to let me know if you see me about to "step in a hole" or make a mistake. lol. I always try to avoid the same mistakes that people who are older than me have made. It just doesn't make sense for me to "fall in that same hole" that they fell in.

 

[Tez3]

It's the same in the U.S.. Keep in mind that illegal means it's against the law. It doesn't mean people don't have a choice. People choose to follow the law or choose not to follow the law.

I totally agree with that.and now that you've stated you have been on the planet for 60+ years I'll be listening to you much closely now as well. So feel free to let me know if you see me about to "step in a hole" or make a mistake. lol. I always try to avoid the same mistakes that people who are older than me have made. It just doesn't make sense for me to "fall in that same hole" that they fell in.

People are mostly law abiding here because they see the point of the law. I think we see the police and the law in a slightly different way from what I've seen Americans doing.
I will freely admit I've had some of the best times of my life when I've made what some might consider mistakes lol. I would say go for it, sometimes mistakes aren't and sometimes playing safe is a mistake.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I also find this amusing. If you're going to teach kids, you gotta accept the fact that there are going to be some parents who's only goal is to get the kids out of their hair for a while. Suck it up or don't teach kids.

Yep, it comes with the territory. People want more parental involvement, which is surprising because if I have the opportunity to have a positive effect on a young person's life then I'm going to take it. I often joke with myself saying that if I don't want this kid to grow up and be the person that mugs me when I'm 80, then I better make sure he/she gets on the right path whenever I have the opportunity to do so.

When their kids are there, they're going to be doing martial arts, not paint-by-numbers or duck-duck-goose, regardless of what the parents true goals are

Excellent. So far every child that is in our school participates in the class with their parents. Hopefully we can continue to grow that way. I actually like it better than the separate youth classes. It's one of the few times where the child can do "an adult activity" and be just like or better than the adults. They get all happy when we ask them to show the adults how to do stuff. I don't know how this would work with a large group, but so far with a small group it's great.

 

[JowGaWolf]

People are mostly law abiding here because they see the point of the law. I think we see the police and the law in a slightly different way from what I've seen Americans doing.
I will freely admit I've had some of the best times of my life when I've made what some might consider mistakes lol. I would say go for it, sometimes mistakes aren't and sometimes playing safe is a mistake.

lol. I have one word for you. TRUMP. We have lost our minds over here. Unfortunately, Americans get stuck on themselves where they think their rights are bigger than the law.
For many years there has been an anti-government mindset growing here and many of the politicians from one party are the ones who kept "feeding that monster." Now that the monster is bigger than the cage, those same politicians are trying to get it under control. So yes you are right, it just happens that the same guy who didn't see the value and importance of the seat belt is part of that political party.

Hopefully we can get our act together soon.

 

[Tez3]

Personally I don't like children and adults in the same class, I find it dangerous. The adults can't spar properly and we can't work on techniques to the same degree, there's many techniques we do that I wouldn't teach to children. We train robustly to the extent that children would be hurt if they were to do the same.

 

[Tez3]

lol. I have one word for you. TRUMP. We have lost our minds over here. Unfortunately, Americans get stuck on themselves where they think their rights are bigger than the law.
For many years there has been an anti-government mindset growing here and many of the politicians from one party are the ones who kept "feeding that monster." Now that the monster is bigger than the cage, those same politicians are trying to get it under control. So yes you are right, it just happens that the same guy who didn't see the value and importance of the seat belt is part of that political party.

Hopefully we can get our act together soon.

Without wandering too far into the politics that are verboten here, I will say there is a huge amount of concern here today, the media and social media are almost melting as Trump has just said he wouldn't rule out a nuclear attack on the UK. It is worrying all sides of the political divide here.

 

[Lameman]

Tez3, I could tell you even less believable stories if you would like. I don't really care if you believe them or not. I do hope that when you have to fight against the odds you remember your training and don't let them get into your head.

 

[Touch Of Death]

Without wandering too far into the politics that are verboten here, I will say there is a huge amount of concern here today, the media and social media are almost melting as Trump has just said he wouldn't rule out a nuclear attack on the UK. It is worrying all sides of the political divide here.

Trump is just a distraction. He can't get the off-whites. LOL

 

[Tez3]

Tez3, I could tell you even less believable stories if you would like. I don't really care if you believe them or not. I do hope that when you have to fight against the odds you remember your training and don't let them get into your head.

Why do you assume that you are the only one who has first hand knowledge of fighting? Perhaps you should acknowledge that you are not the only one on here who has had to fight and has done things you know nothing of.