Timid kid in BJJ, should aggression be advised?

[skribs]

A: Should aggression be advised?
B: You can't be timid forever. Soon or later you have to use aggression to deal with aggression.

When people throw punches at your head, and you have courage to punch back, the word "timid" will never be in your dictionary.

Again, this is a BJJ class. It is a pure grappling art. There are no punches. If he's punching in BJJ class, he's going to get kicked out.

 

[Dirty Dog]

A: Should aggression be advised?
B: You can't be timid forever. Soon or later you have to use aggression to deal with aggression.

When people throw punches at your head, and you have courage to punch back, the word "timid" will never be in your dictionary.

​

Context really does matter, you know. He's talking about a 9 year old in a BJJ (grappling only) class. Not a rumble between the Sharks and the Jets.

 

[SuperSnakeCrane87]

My tuppeny’s Worth:

The first step in BJJ is to build a strong defence - become “untappable“
I give this advice to everyone starting BJJ, but often folk with a less aggressive personality find this suits them quite well

It is relatively straightforward to do if you focus on defence only when you’re rolling (Most people don’t). With a bit of coaching and practice your son will probably find the more aggressive kids are running around getting frustrated because they can’t do anything to him. Which is very satisfying actually

I’m not sure how you get him the coaching on how to do this (basically glue your elbows to your ribs, defend your collar and be a little on your side if possible), but if you can get him a little technical advice and help him take a defensive mindset (ie don’t try to win, just survive / don’t get tapped) then most likely he’ll have some good success. Maybe get some support from the professor by chatting to him/her (or a private class focused on this)?

I hope this helps

Hello everybody,

I'm a parent with two sons that have just completed over a month of BJJ (2 lessons per week); they will be be 9 and 6 years old this year. I do not have any martial arts or combat background.

My younger son is more athletically-inclined and was totally into it; he also had the benefit of a relatively level playing field as most of the other kids had, at most, just an extra year of experience over him.

My older son is currently quite timid by nature, and after watching his first few classes, it was clear he would be the "runt of the litter" for a while.

My philosophy going into this is that I would not comment, coach, or push my sons in any way and to allow them to grow themselves into the sport as they see fit and without bias. My younger son didn't need any convincing at the start as he seemed to fit right in, always bouncing on his toes. However, I had reservations about my older son because of his gentle nature, but he still wanted to join even though he says that he was scared. The one thing I did tell my sons is that they should treat the BJJ lessons the same as if they were going to school; sometimes you have good days and sometimes you have bad days, but you still need to attend classes and complete your schoolwork regardless.

Then one day two new kids joined my older son's class and they were essentially UFC wannabees. I, on other hand, have never shown my sons any videos of combat sports, partially because I didn't want them to get any misconceptions or preconceived notions. Not surprisingly, my son, despite being taller and heavier, couldn't handle the more aggressive newbies. My son didn't complain and nor did I; he simply mentioned to me on the drive home that everybody was so aggressive. And I just mentioned that BJJ is a combat sport and sometimes you need to be aggressive and, of course, I complimented him on his effort as he always leaves class a little winded and red-faced.

My question is this: Should I continue as is and remain hands-off? and allow my older son to discovered and determine his own mindset over time? Or should I be taking a more pro-active and involved approach, exposing him more to the competitive mentality? Would either of the above approaches be considered a disservice to a child participating in martial arts lessons?

Sorry if these sound like dumb questions, but I'm just somebody that knows very little.

Appreciate any and all advice this forum has to offer.

Kind regards,

Its possible your quieter son may not have a personality that fits that gym. Some gyms are dog eat dog and some gym are communal.
His lack of aggression (from what you said, comparing him to other kids) could make him come off as aloof which is nails on a chalk board to those who are focused and want to dedicate themselves. His personality could actually be draining to the other kids so they may want to get rid of him so his personality doesnt rub off on them, because you mentioned they were "UFC wannabee's"...getting punched in the face requires a certain personality and not every personality type can be around each other.

I would search for a less competitive gym, maybe try traditional martial arts (although the louder, more competitive son, may have a similar experience to what the quieter one is having currently), or try some private lessons so he can tap people out(since thats how people within that social bubble determine rank...it is a combat sport)

Also since you are a newbie...hands off. Bring it to the coaches attention and ask for their perspective. Don't approach other peoples childrens on the mats.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

I suspect that if this particular child watched MMA competitions, it would immediately him off from the training. The child’s parent knows his temperament. At his age and with his temperament, it is better to let him explore the training without the weight and pressure of watching people get beat up and getting a message of, “this is where you are headed.”

Just let the kid decide if he enjoys the activity. Later, the idea of competition can be introduced and he can decide if he is interested.

That's why I specified BJJ tournaments if he's (the kid's) not interested in MMA, or dad thinks that would be a bad idea. And OP doesn't have to show him BJJ tournaments and tell him that's where he's headed, but from how I read it, he's actively avoiding having his son watch BJJ tournaments. Which seems silly to me. And people don't tend to get beat up in those tournaments either.

 

[Flying Crane]

That's why I specified BJJ tournaments if he's (the kid's) not interested in MMA, or dad thinks that would be a bad idea. And OP doesn't have to show him BJJ tournaments and tell him that's where he's headed, but from how I read it, he's actively avoiding having his son watch BJJ tournaments. Which seems silly to me. And people don't tend to get beat up in those tournaments either.

True, there is a distinction. But I still think that perhaps for this kid, at this stage, watching any kind of competition might be an overload and could kill his interest before it even has a chance to begin. I say, let the kid decide if he likes the activity on the simplest participation level. Just go to class and take part in the training. Anything else can wait.

Sounds to me like the kid is an introvert. As an introvert myself, I know how it feels. I take my own path to get there. I take my time in making up my own mind how I feel about things. If I feel like people are being pushy, even with good intentions, I am more likely to disengage. I am a non-joiner for the most part.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

He's talking about a 9 year old in a BJJ (grappling only) class. Not a rumble between the Sharks and the Jets.

When I was 5 (my 1st grade), I swung a broom and fought against my whole classmates. After school hour, I joined in the schook kids gang and used stick to fight against farmer's kid gang (we school kid call those farmer's kid as "barbarian").

I was so happy when my son got into his 1st fight when he was in his highschool years. I told him that I got into my 1st fight when I was 5. My mom must dropped my head on the ground before I was 5.

I know you will say, "The way you do things is not necessarily the only way to do them." I just strongly believe that to have the courage to stand on the ground and fight back is a must have spirit for all children.

 

[skribs]

Sounds to me like the kid is an introvert. As an introvert myself, I know how it feels. I take my own path to get there. I take my time in making up my own mind how I feel about things. If I feel like people are being pushy, even with good intentions, I am more likely to disengage. I am a non-joiner for the most part.

I'm an introvert, and I love watching martial arts. If it wasn't for Bruce Lee and Power Rangers, I may not have started when I was a kid. If it weren't for Donnie Yen and Tony Jaa, I may not have come back as an adult.

 

[skribs]

When I was 5 (my 1st grade), I swung a broom and fought against my whole classmates. After school hour, I joined in the schook kids gang and used stick to fight against farmer's kid gang (we school kid call those farmer's kid as "barbarian").

I was so happy when my son got into his 1st fight when he was in his highschool years. I told him that I got into my 1st fight when I was 5. My mom must dropped my head on the ground before I was 5.

I know you will say, "The way you do things is not necessarily the only way to do them." I just strongly believe that to have the courage to stand on the ground and fight back is a must have spirit for all children.

BJJ (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu) is a grappling-only art. This means no punches.

Sorry, but you didn't seem to be grasping this when several of us had said this, so I thought I would make it in big, bold letters, and maybe you would get it now.

 

[Dirty Dog]

When I was 5 (my 1st grade), I swung a broom and fought against my whole classmates. After school hour, I joined in the schook kids gang and used stick to fight against farmer's kid gang (we school kid call those farmer's kid as "barbarian").

It's amazing you're not in prison.

I was so happy when my son got into his 1st fight when he was in his highschool years. I told him that I got into my 1st fight when I was 5. My mom must dropped my head on the ground before I was 5.

I know you will say, "The way you do things is not necessarily the only way to do them." I just strongly believe that to have the courage to stand on the ground and fight back is a must have spirit for all children.

No, I will say that what you're describing is heinous. The fact that you still apparently think this is an acceptable way to behave is abhorant.

 

[dunc]

@Crosswind117 You’ll find a wonderful diversity of opinion on this forum
Many folk are coming at this thread from the perspective of striking arts rather than BJJ and there is a key difference when it comes to aggression etc
BJJ is in essence a defensive art - you do not need to be aggressive to enjoy the art and make progress

At my academy we have a small middle aged guy who doesn’t have an aggressive bone in his body and has really mastered the defensive elements of BJJ that I mentioned earlier in the thread. He is always chosen by the professor to spar with any larger, aggressive beginner or visitor (there is a a culture in BJJ of making sure visitors go back home and say “wow the folk at that academy really kick ***”)

The reason he’s chosen is because despite the size difference &/or lack of aggressive mentality no one can do anything to him. They just burn themselves out trying to submit him while he calmly defends, escapes and waits until they tire out at which point he turns the tables and catches a submission on them. All without breaking a sweat or changing his calm, smiling demeanour. His Jiu Jitsu clearly demonstrates clearly how BJJ can enable a smaller, weaker person to prevail against a larger, stronger, more aggressive person

Aggression has its place in BJJ and you have to learn how to deal with it, but you do not need to encourage your son to become aggressive in order to do well in BJJ

 

[Crosswind117]

Thanks everybody for all the replies and I'm so very happy that everybody's kind enough and comfortable enough to share their diverse opinions! Last thing we need is an echo chamber.

Perhaps I'll share a bit more to provide more context. My older son being intimidated by more aggressive classmates is only half the story. The other half is that he is fearful of accidentally hurting people or offending them. He's the oldest out of all his siblings and cousins and he's been told all his life not to harm others, especially those that were smaller than him.

Regarding the sharing of BBJ videos with my sons, my concern has already been mentioned by some forum members. If my son came up to me asking if he could view some examples of BJJ matches, I would gladly oblige him. But if I were to sit him down with me to binge-watch a series of BJJ and MMA videos, I would worry that he would get it into his head that he needs to be good at BJJ to get my approval or get turned-off and decide to quit BJJ completely.

People improve the most when they are self-motivated; they get the most fulfillment when doing things of their own accord, based on their own desires and on their terms. As much as I hope that my older son develops some level of urgency and puts more oomph into his movements, I've decided that I'm just going to let him figure it out for himself. And based on all the responses to this topic and mulling over my older son's progress so far, he should be just fine.

Thanks everybody for all the helpful responses!

 

[dunc]

Hi
I think you’re wise by letting him discover what he wants to focus on
Here’s an example of what I’m talking about

Ryron Gracie (who is not an active competitor at this time) vs one of the top active competitors in the world
And a breakdown

As a non-aggressive person who doesn’t want to hurt others he may find this inspiring
Hope this helps

 

[drop bear]

Thanks everybody for all the replies and I'm so very happy that everybody's kind enough and comfortable enough to share their diverse opinions! Last thing we need is an echo chamber.

Perhaps I'll share a bit more to provide more context. My older son being intimidated by more aggressive classmates is only half the story. The other half is that he is fearful of accidentally hurting people or offending them. He's the oldest out of all his siblings and cousins and he's been told all his life not to harm others, especially those that were smaller than him.

Regarding the sharing of BBJ videos with my sons, my concern has already been mentioned by some forum members. If my son came up to me asking if he could view some examples of BJJ matches, I would gladly oblige him. But if I were to sit him down with me to binge-watch a series of BJJ and MMA videos, I would worry that he would get it into his head that he needs to be good at BJJ to get my approval or get turned-off and decide to quit BJJ completely.

People improve the most when they are self-motivated; they get the most fulfillment when doing things of their own accord, based on their own desires and on their terms. As much as I hope that my older son develops some level of urgency and puts more oomph into his movements, I've decided that I'm just going to let him figure it out for himself. And based on all the responses to this topic and mulling over my older son's progress so far, he should be just fine.

Thanks everybody for all the helpful responses!

The thing about jujitsu is you suck at it until you don't. Getting mauled isn't uncommon. And Getting used to that is theoretically character building.

If he keeps turning up he will eventually get better.

Otherwise there are ways to mechanically mitigate aggressive people. And there are area that you want to put a bit of effort in to win a position.

But they are generally taught at some point.

 

[isshinryuronin]

Watch MMA videos? Work on some BJJ technical aspect? These will not solve this young man's "problem." IMO, we're looking at something more inherent than mindset - his basic personality. Not everyone is an alpha, driven to be aggressive and competitive.

Good coaches are able to ascertain the demeanor of an individual and work with them. We purposely do not pair timid new students with overbearing students to ease them into the aggressiveness of the art. This usually works well, but not always. Hopefully, the student grows in confidence and controlled aggressiveness.

The child’s parent knows his temperament. At his age and with his temperament, it is better to let him explore the training without the weight and pressure of watching people get beat up and getting a message of, “this is where you are headed.”

Just let the kid decide if he enjoys the activity. Later, the idea of competition can be introduced and he can decide if he is interested.

The above two quotes hit much closer to the mark. Trying to force a youngster to go against his natural grain will, I think, only serve to undermine his confidence, frustrate him, and likely turn him off from the sport.

My question is this: Should I continue as is and remain hands-off? and allow my older son to discovered and determine his own mindset over time? Or should I be taking a more pro-active and involved approach, exposing him more to the competitive mentality? Would either of the above approaches be considered a disservice to a child participating in martial arts lessons?

You are an insightful and sensitive parent to question these possible approaches. I think your first approach is the right road to follow. Let him enjoy the activity and gradually increase his skills, leaving him to discover where it will lead him. Let him grow according to his nature.

My son didn't complain and nor did I; he simply mentioned to me on the drive home that everybody was so aggressive. And I just mentioned that BJJ is a combat sport and sometimes you need to be aggressive and, of course, I complimented him on his effort

Just keep doing this!

 

[Steve]

Lots of good advice. You know your son best, and it sounds like you have good instincts and a thoughtful approach.

I think it's really cool that your kids are in BJJ, and I hope they both fall in love with the sport. It can be so good for them physically and mentally. It's definitely fun for the aggressive, competitive types. But there are different styles for different people, and a more passive personality can do very well.

I am also an advocate of putting things in front of kids and letting them find their way, with encouragement and positivity. As an introvert myself with three kids, two of whom are also introverts, I know that some kids won't always ask for what they want. Putting options in front of them makes it easier for them to advocate for themselves. For example, I wouldn't push the kid into competing. But I would probably expose him to competition by encouraging him to go out and support his team mates. That might spark an interest, or at least provide an opportunity for him to talk about it with you.

Same with watching videos. Down the road, after the kids have some technical knowledge, it might be fun to watch a high level tournament, to see what it looks like when performed at an elite level. It's like taking your kids to an NFL game or major league baseball game.

 

[drop bear]

Lots of good advice. You know your son best, and it sounds like you have good instincts and a thoughtful approach.

I think it's really cool that your kids are in BJJ, and I hope they both fall in love with the sport. It can be so good for them physically and mentally. It's definitely fun for the aggressive, competitive types. But there are different styles for different people, and a more passive personality can do very well.

I am also an advocate of putting things in front of kids and letting them find their way, with encouragement and positivity. As an introvert myself with three kids, two of whom are also introverts, I know that some kids won't always ask for what they want. Putting options in front of them makes it easier for them to advocate for themselves. For example, I wouldn't push the kid into competing. But I would probably expose him to competition by encouraging him to go out and support his team mates. That might spark an interest, or at least provide an opportunity for him to talk about it with you.

Same with watching videos. Down the road, after the kids have some technical knowledge, it might be fun to watch a high level tournament, to see what it looks like when performed at an elite level. It's like taking your kids to an NFL game or major league baseball game.

Or even go to a comp. Meet the people involved.

 

[Steve]

Or even go to a comp. Meet the people involved.

yeah, if there's one around. I suggested, this too, but I must not have been clear. I think a great way to get some exposure to competition is go as a spectator and cheer on your teammates. Totally agree.

 

[Buka]

The thing about jujitsu is you suck at it until you don't.

That should be in a fortune cookie. That's a great line, and ain't that the truth?

I really like the reality of that line.

 

[drop bear]

That should be in a fortune cookie. That's a great line, and ain't that the truth?

I really like the reality of that line.

Yeah if I was to get a tattoo it would be Jake the dog saying basically that.

 

[Crosswind117]

Thanks for the kind responses, and thanks for the videos dunc! There were probably a hundred tiny things happening in that match that that would totally go unnoticed for unfamiliar guys like me. I'll be sure to show videos like that to my kids once they get more experience.

On another note, I think my son is starting to feel the benefits of attending BJJ classes. He appears less "chubby" compared to before BJJ and my Wife and I commented that he looked good, surprised at how the change occurred rather quickly. His swimming instructor, who only meets once a week, was also surprised that his speed and stamina improved significantly seemingly out of nowhere.

Well, it's still very much the early stages, we'll have to wait and see how things go over the next several months.

Thanks everybody!